Secondary School Admissions 2021

[peacockfeather11]

Hi - not sure if there is a thread on this. First time for me applying for secondary school and feel so lost.
School hasn't sent anything out and doesn't seem to be any meetings set up. Banding tests have been moved out. I don't have a school that my dd can get into easily (or at least a v good one).

Hi op, schools normally run open days in September, but I imagine few of these will go ahead.

They should be running some kind of virtual event tho.

In practice, few of us have a wide choice of secondary schools, but most people have one they are close to (sometimes a catchment school, but not all LAs run catchments).

You have four-six choices on the form as a rule, you can put down any school, but as with primary, should include your local school to avoid being sent to some awful place miles away.

Some things to consider:
Clubs and sports offered
Language studied and is there a choice?
Double or triple science at GCSE?
Sixth form at the school?
What kind of tech offer is there if this is something your child may enjoy
What intake numbers; 1000-1200 is a typical size of school (in total!) - personally I would not be keen on a small school of 600 students but you may prefer this
Commute - v important - a friend was delighted when her son got a place at a highly regarded local school, only to realise that his walk to the only possible bus stop would take him at least 35-40 minutes! Not great at 4.30 in December.

@clary thank you so much. I hadn't even thought of half these things. Travelling has been a topic, especially during this lockdown.

Feeling totally lost here too @peacockfeather11. I was totally organised when it came to choosing a primary school but with secondary I don't feel like I have a clue! Our catchment school are hosting a virtual open day. Yet to hear what other local schools are doing.
DS is set on going to his catchment school so far...

Another one fumbling around in the dark here. I realise that secondaries have other things to deal with at present, but I am really finding it difficult to make this huge decision.

I am really hoping the schools will do something virtual soon.

We have a couple suggesting they will have virtual tours but no dates. I feel so bad for my dd as I know how much she would like to see and get a feel for them.

Depends where you are. In most places you have 3 choices, their primary school (assuming you live in catchment) will have a normal target school that most students go to. We went out of area so went to visit the two schools we were interested in. Open evenings are typically the last week September through mid October and the deadline for applications is October 31. This year all bets are off as to whether there's open evenings. Read the school's website, look at the ofsted and post on neighbourhood groups to get a feeling fit if schools suit your child - eg if they are really into music, team sport, more specialist activities then there may be a more obvious choice. 80% + kids here go to the local school, we were the exception.

London is a bit different as due to housing density there are more schools in an area but the main principals are the same. Remember all schools have to teach the same curriculum!

Yes please do remember, you may not realistically have much of a choice (unless in London where I gather it is different).

We live in a smallish city and have a local catchment school, a city centre school with no real catchment but quite a lottery to get in (literally), and a village school with great rep but again, chancy, some years you will get in, others not.

Both the city school and the village would mean a bus ride from where we live, the village one with an added 20-min walk to the bus.

There are some other great schools in our city, but no point anyone where I live getting excited about them, as a) you won't get in on distance and b) you won't be able to get there without an obliging parent giving you a lift.

So what I am saying (long windedly) is by all means look at the options and see what is out there, thinking about the things mentioned on her and other MN threads, but beware of getting hung up on a wonderful school two bus rides and 7 miles away, as the chances ae it's a non starter.

Whatever you may read on MN, the vast majority of 11yos in England go to their local catchment state comp and do pretty well there.

Can I join? Another one applying for the first time and feeling a bit lost especially with virtual rather than real-life open evenings!

We get three choices in our LA. Our nearest is the best in the area but introduced a system of feeder primaries a couple of years ago which DS doesn't attend. Last year literally one non-sibling, non-feeder primary child was admitted and looking at the distance they must live practically next door. And they admitted 50 extra children compared to the 2021 intake figure!Logically I know this means we don't stand a chance, but I live in hope that they may randomly make it bulge year (is that even a thing at secondary?) and families who live further away from us are also applying - would kick myself if we don't even put it and could have got in because it's a freak year or something. Also from reading appeal threads wonder if fact they've admitted more previously might go in our favour if we did go down the appeal route so feel should apply for this reason too. Obviously not ideal to rely on appealing and covid might weaken the argument re pupil no.s anyway. Can't decide if this would therefore be a wasted choice.

Really struggling with which to put second. From what we know so far (based on Ofsted, exam results and local reputations) DH and I think we prefer C of E school. We should get priority for Church attendance but need to double check with the Vicar that we definitely meet criteria due not being able to attend during lockdown. Good ofsted and well thought of locally but last published exam results a bit disappointing and is the furthest from home. Also highly suspect that none of DS's friends would get in as wouldn't meet the church criteria.

Third one is DS's favoured backup as likely to be where his friends go.Undersubscribed last year so getting in shouldn't be an issue. Good exam results but requires improvement ofsted and mixed reputation.

Argh it's so difficult! Was really hoping to have a chance to look round and don't think we'll get the same feel for them virtually, but totally understand why it needs to be like this.

We have done all our kids schooling outside our local borough.

You may have an idea on what you want but you also need to think about what suits your child. We visited some amazing schools but really didn't like them, others that were average "felt" nicer.
You have no way to know if you made the right choice at the end of the day it is your best guest when you apply.

1. Faith - if this is something important to you - check criteria catchment area may be bigger than 3 miles as could be based on Diosese. References covering 3-5 years is often expected. Watch for earlier cut off dates for supplimentary info!

2)Specialist schools - language, sports, drama etc. - some may offer spaces regardless of distance based on child's ability.
Look now for application dates - we missed applying to one school for DD1 as the specialist form needed to be submitted a month before the Pan London application - they will always have some sort of audtion or test event to attend for these places make sure not away on these dates as never offer alternatives.

3. Single sex or mixed schools - Does this matter or would you prefer it?
   I'm Mum of two girls and both Husband & I attended mixed schools. Both DD's go to single sex seconndary although at mixed primaries.
   Please consider how much interaction they have with peers of opposite sex outside of school enviroment - being a scout leader of 11-15 year olds I often saw those that went to a single sex school struggle to talk to their opposites if they didnt.
   Both ours attend a mix scout troup, drama group and youngest plays american football on a mixed team.

4. Independant schools - If it is not something you have ever considered have a look - all require an exam and an interview. There is a cost to sit the exams although some share results and if you get certain goverment benifits then the schools will waver exam fees.
   You can apply for Drama, sport or academic scholoarships which reduces the costs - you can also apply for bursaries to cover costs.
   Most if not all Indy's have charitable status, if they don't offer busaries they can't keep that status. You do need to set out everything you earn and own like house etc but its fairly simple to do each year and if you don't try you never know the application is only between you and the Busar so the teachers and other pupils don't know who has paid in full and who hasn't.
   Word of waring - some indy's are hot houses for exams and pressure. there can be high insidences of anxiety, stress and eating disorders if not careful.

5. Travel and associated costs - because we travel outside the local area it has cost more for travel we were told we should have sent them to other local schools when we requested travel cost help from our local council despite the schools being too far from home to allow me to work my fulltime hours without which we could not pay our mortage! its about £110 / month for each of them. Zones 1-4 it also means they can be late home with after school clubs. They go to bed very early compared to friends of same age but are on a train before 7am.
   Dont be afraid to google reviews of schools and check out forums like this one and others, look at the date of the reviews as well if a few years ago things may have changed. One of the schools we looked at was extremly poorly judged on lqbqt issues or lack of acknowledgement of the exsistance of it!
   We saw references to training and education of it on a tour so things have improved.

Don't be afraid to move your child if the school doesn't work. We did this in begining of yr 4 primary for DD2 and it was best thing we ever did. She has thrived in a different school. It's not easy to move them in year but can be worth the stress in the long run.

wow thanks - you are being more helpful than any school. So much to do in so little time. Shame we can't actually get to see the schools in person but understandable.

OP and other posters looking for advice, whereabouts are you? Tiggermummy's info is definitely about London, which is fine if that's where you are; there is a lot more realistic choice there.

If you are outside London or the close home counties, you may have less choice - for example, single-sex schools that are not private are relatively rare IME.

The faith school aspect is worth considering, but remember that this will often mean a longer journey to school and most LAs will not pay the associated transport costs.

Remember that children aged 11+ are expected to walk/cycle up to three miles to school; if they school you go to is your nearest/catchment school and you live more than three miles away (so, if you are very rural) then the council will pay for transport. But if you are less than three miles from school, or if you choose to go to a further-away non-catchment school then you will have to pay for transport. I'm not saying that should stop you considering the school, but it is a factor. So if we have gone for our localish village school (bus ride away) we would have had to pay for the bus as there is a nearer school the DC can walk to.

We are in London and not getting in on faith. Some schools are perfect but they all seem to have a catchment that I have realised (too late) that I am not in. That is why I am looking at any school that may offer an open place/aptitude test as it won't be on distance.

Just posting what I always post on admissions threads: all LEAs in England have to use the equal preference system. Make sure you list the schools in your genuine order of preference, always including at least one school that you can be fairly confident of gaining a place at (likely to be your nearest or catchment school). Don't listen to any rumours about "X school fills up with people who put it first- if you put it second you have no chance". This is not true- the school has no idea where you placed them on the form. If (hypothetically) a school's only admission criteria was distance, and you lived nearer than me, but you put the school 6th and I put it 1st, you would still get the place over me. The only time that the order you listed the schools matters is if more than one school is able to offer you a place, in which case the LEA will offer you the school that is higher on your preference list.

Excellent advice here already, especially about the equal preference system. Even schools sometimes misrepresent this. The significance of putting your genuine first preference first isn’t because it will give your application extra weight - it won’t - it’s because if you meet the oversubscription criteria for more than one school you’ll be given the place at whichever you put higher on your list. I’ve done appeals with people who met the criteria for (say) school 1 and school 4, were given a place at school 1 and then turned up at appeal saying, actually school 4 had always been their first choice so could they “swap”? In many cases the answer will be no because that in itself isn’t enough to win an appeal.

Thanks so much for all the really helpful advice here. I've just got a bit of a query about what it is worth actually including on the admission form. I know we need to flag up which of the admission criteria DS meets for each one (living in named area, faith etc.) but is any extra info beyond that relevant? Am thinking ahead about potential for appeal with our first choice.

As per my ramble above, issue is that despite the fact it is our nearest we now stand little chance due to introduction of feeder primaries. I was wondering if we might get somewhere with an appeal as they've admitted more pupils in previous years than the PAN published for 2021. The main reason we want this school is because it's the best in the area, but every other parent can say that and I realise that my DS has no more 'right' to go there than any other child. It therefore doesn't seem relevant to mention excellent academic reputation in the application but would we have been expected to at appeal/seem odd if we don't?

We are then left relying on practicalities. Not only is it the nearest but due to the location it is far less prone to the ridiculous traffic delays that happen on annoyingly regular basis in the direction of all the other schools (we don't have any secondary schools in walking distance unfortunately) DS gets particularly anxious if he thinks there's any risk of being late, though doesn't have a diagnosis of anxiety or anything. Is this worth mentioning or ridiculous grasping at straws?

Is there anything else I've missed/should include? Or do we really need to give up hope of this school and use our choices more wisely? Thanks

Fairfax, it's certainly worth putting your top choice down, as long as you have what is often called a banker on the list - a school that you will get into which you would be happy with - or at least happier than if you got given a less good school a long way away.

When people put down three unachievable schools only, they then get given a school with spaces - usually a less popular one which may be miles away. The thought is that you are better off with a local one you don't like! in your case, it sounds as tho the one yr ds's pals will go to would fit that bill.

In terms of appeals, I think it's what you say at the appeal that counts, rather than what you put on the application. The key things to think about in that case are why the school would suit your son above others - eg he plays trumpet and it has a jazz band, that kind of thing. Distance and academic excellence are not factors sadly. An hour's journey (I think) is considered reasonable.

But hey, you might get a place!

Hi all - this information is really helpful. I have a question that someone may be able to answer. We live in an outer London borough. There are 3 good schools in our area but unfortunately when I look at recent years' "furthest" distances, there is a fair chance we won't be close enough to any. They are all annoyingly co-located within ~0.5 miles, but 2 miles from us. Our actual nearest school is over the border in another borough and really doesn't look great - Ofsted report, exam results, etc all worrying.

My question is, in the event we don't get into the 3 schools in our area is it more likely that we'd be allocated an undersubscribed school within the borough, but potentially further away, or would we be allocated the closest school even if it's out of borough? Any ideas?

Noneedtocry you would be allocated the closest school with spaces - which could be your closest school, but very likely not. It could be anywhere up to an hour away by public transport. So think if you would rather get the nearby, less good school or a similar less good (= less popular) school five miles away.

Actually I don't know so much about London boroughs. It may be different. But either way, it's risky putting three schools you don't stand much chance of on your form and no banker. You would go to the bottom of the pile.

We're about to apply for DD2 and did lots of tours for DD1. She has SN though so we were looking for different things from a school. Due to screw ups from LEA, primary and secondary schools (long story) DD1 ended up somewhere we didn't choose and didn't know anyone and is doing amazingly well. It's the top non grammar in the city. DD2 has a great chance of getting a place due to being a sibling but she wants our local catchment school which is 'up and coming'. I'm wondering if we are mad to consider passing up the chance of a popular school for DD2's preference. Of course she was unable to visit either of them. She was dead set on grammar but has suddenly decided against the 11+. I don't know how I feel about this. The competition is ridiculous but she is one of the brightest in her class. She would shine in her catchment school but not be anything special in grammar, and be less well off and accomplished.

The local school Facebook group kicked off when the current year 7s all got their secondary places. lots of people applied for 3 popular schools out of area and got somewhere dire even further away. In previous years with smaller cohorts this had paid off. Always worth putting down a local school you can live with that you have a chance of getting into.

I’m so depressed about this whole school business. Realistically the only school we will get a place at is Ofstead Inadequate and last year had an intake of less than 40 pupils. I’ve spent all summer unsuccessfully trying to move house.

Thanks Clery & Helpless - looks like I need to find a banker... the closest school is not it. The Ofsted rating doesn't bother me particularly (our current primary was RI when we applied but we loved the school when we visited) my bigger issue is the actual content of the report. Saying stuff along the lines of - "kids don't always feel safe".

I'm looking into a few schools in the borough which are further & undersubscribed but seem to be managed better.

I feel so lost too, I thought the pack that school said we'd receive in the post would be full of information and guidance but it was a sheet of paper telling me to log in and select 3 schools.

I've done loads of research around ofsted results (not really accurate as all done pre 2018) ebacc results, maths and English results etc my head is spinning.

I've got 2 that are pretty equal on paper, but there won't be any open days to get a feel of them. Apparently there will be virtual tours but they're obviously going to show all the good and none of the bad, I don't know anyone who has children in secondary already to ask them. I've googled trying to find parents views and students views but only the school websites come up, which again are all positive.

My head feels ready to explode 😭

Following. Feeling a bit lost without the prospect of an in person open day. Our catchment school is our obvious choice but there are others I wanted to look at. The website documents don't seem to tell me much.

Living in a small Yorkshire town we have one secondary school that most of the children attend along with those from surrounding villages making choice pretty much an illusion. Luckily it's a very good comp and makes this time of year less stressful. The next nearest secondary schools are different councils and equally oversubscribed.