Secondary School Admissions 2021

[peacockfeather11]

Hi - not sure if there is a thread on this. First time for me applying for secondary school and feel so lost.
School hasn't sent anything out and doesn't seem to be any meetings set up. Banding tests have been moved out. I don't have a school that my dd can get into easily (or at least a v good one).

Can I just say, having been through this process last September/October, I really feel for you guys. I visited the schools on my list when DD was in Y5, and then took her to visit the narrowed down ‘choices’ in Y6. Visiting really helped both her and us get a feel of the place and what would suit DD best. And to know what to expect in terms of actually starting the school.

can I just give some advice about filling in the form (I dont think it has been said already)
There is a lot of rubbish talked at the school gates about forms. The reality is:

Put the schools in order of preference.
If you love a school, but it is a long shot, put it at number 1.

If you are not eligible for school 1, eg you are too far away, then your second choice becomes your first.
You are not given second choice after all the kids who put it first, you are treated equally with the ones who put it first. So no disadvantage to putting that school second.

Use your last choice on the form to choose a school you know you will get in to.
If you don't and you don't get into any schools, the LA will NOT give you a place in your local school, they will give you a place, in the closest school with spaces, which may be on th eother side of town.

A couple of things to bear in mind. My now year 8 son went to a good grammar in year 7 but it was a HUGE school (8 form entry where he had come from a 1 form entry primary!) He was so unhappy. No room to run around at break and let off steam due to their constant expansion, boys pushing in the corridors as it was so packed and the teachers were very stand offish, it really didn't feel friendly (unlike the open evening when they were lovely). And his day was very long as it took over an hour to get there and back. He's now in a local non grammar (it has good reviews just not as popular as it's surrounded by grammars) and he's so happy, doing really well and is a different child at home. His school day is two hours shorter too. So it's just something to bear in mind. DS2 is now about to take his 11+ with his eye on a super selective near us but he is now wavering about possibly choosing the school my other son is at. So we have changed our mind a bit about grammars - happy kids are the number one priority! Also the other thing is COVID is probably not going anywhere for a while. If you're like me you won't be happy for them to use the bus so we're driving them to and from school - another factor to consider if you're worried about the bus and don't want to spend hours driving every day!

Thank you all for your advice.

A qq - if a school is lottery where do you put it in preference? If it is 1st choice do you put it in as number 1? Or number 6 because it is pure luck that you'll get a place?

@peacockfeather11

Thank you all for your advice.

A qq - if a school is lottery where do you put it in preference? If it is 1st choice do you put it in as number 1? Or number 6 because it is pure luck that you'll get a place?

if it is the school you want, put it as number 1. If you don't get in, your number 2 rises to first position and is considered as no. 1

if you put it as no. 6, you will only be considered for it if you don't get in to numbers 1,2,3,4,5

@alwayslatte I hear you on the long journey! Dh and I both had long journeys to secondary and it's certainly not ideal IMO (tho sometimes unavoidable).

Eight forms in a year is not huge where I live, just average (total students 1000-1200). We have a local secondary with 2200 students!

It does sound as tho your son's first school had expanded too much tho.

Hi! Can I ask a stupid question. Is there a web site or similar you can use to see all the schools you would have got into (on distance) in prior years. We are in London and there are lots of schools within a 2 mile radius but the ‘furthest distance offered’ varies wildly and it’s making my brain hurt trying to work it out manually! Thanks

Where I am, realistically he is unlikely to get into any of the good schools. I’m not putting our closest school (2 miles away) as that’ll be the one he ends up at and there’s no way I’m sending him there. It’s very undersubscribed with an intake of less than 50 last year (PAN 180).

My three options are:
School A - always very oversubscribed, second closest school to us (3.8 miles) past few years you need to be less than 3 miles to get in. Outstanding school with an excellent reputation.
School B - Good school, but it’s a faith school and we are not of that faith. Generally need to attend a feeder primary to get a place.
School C - Outstanding school, historically undersubscribed due to its location (large village about 5 miles from anywhere else) but has grown massively in popularity over the past few years (due to it being an outstanding school, a new housing estate being built and a lack of other options) and based on last years admission figures we would’ve missed out on a place by about half a mile. This was the school I thought we would get into but now I’m worried we won’t.

My child’s school friends will be split between school A and school C (but we live in a village 4 miles from his primary school). His best friend will definitely be at School A.

School A offers 4 modern languages plus classical languages. School C only offers one language choice. I hoping if my child already learns one of the languages offered at school A which is not the one language available at school C this could form the basis of an appeal? Or is that just wishful thinking?

I can totally back up what PP said about the order you put schools on the form. We put dream school 1st (50/50 chance of getting in), sitter second (DD at the feeder school) and generally a good school, and third choice as a belt and braces, the local comp that is a bit meh but better than a crap school miles away.

We were lucky and got our 1st choice. Had I put it further down on the list we wouldn’t have got it. So yes, put the dream school 1st even if you’re not confident you’ll get in.

Think I'm warming to our 'banker' actually. Very prompt reply to enquiry re virtual open evening and was impressed with the interactive prospectus they sent us. Agree with PP in relation to RI Ofsted too - mirrors our experience with primary which was RI when DS started but is now rated good and we've found it excellent throughout. Think I'll have another read if the report to see exactly what the issues were.

Also looking ahead a bit, the faith school has RE as a compulsory GSCE so if DS does Ebac he'd only have one 'free' option. Both our 1st choice and banker seem to have very similar options (and the same % of students taking Ebac which is much higher than the faith one, possibly due to the RE thing).

Will see how we feel after all of the virtual events, but feeling (slightly) calmer than I was.

fifteenfluffybunnies how many choices do you get? If more than three, you definitely ought to include the rubbish school in slot four. It won't affect your chance of getting schools a, b or c, but if the first three can't offer a place then it's better to end up with a crap school close to you than a crap school miles away.

@FifteenFluffyBunnies

Where I am, realistically he is unlikely to get into any of the good schools. I’m not putting our closest school (2 miles away) as that’ll be the one he ends up at and there’s no way I’m sending him there. It’s very undersubscribed with an intake of less than 50 last year (PAN 180).

My three options are:
School A - always very oversubscribed, second closest school to us (3.8 miles) past few years you need to be less than 3 miles to get in. Outstanding school with an excellent reputation.
School B - Good school, but it’s a faith school and we are not of that faith. Generally need to attend a feeder primary to get a place.
School C - Outstanding school, historically undersubscribed due to its location (large village about 5 miles from anywhere else) but has grown massively in popularity over the past few years (due to it being an outstanding school, a new housing estate being built and a lack of other options) and based on last years admission figures we would’ve missed out on a place by about half a mile. This was the school I thought we would get into but now I’m worried we won’t.

My child’s school friends will be split between school A and school C (but we live in a village 4 miles from his primary school). His best friend will definitely be at School A.

School A offers 4 modern languages plus classical languages. School C only offers one language choice. I hoping if my child already learns one of the languages offered at school A which is not the one language available at school C this could form the basis of an appeal? Or is that just wishful thinking?

so, are you saying that he is unlilkely to get into any of these?

because if they are all a long shot, and you haven't put the local school, there is no guarantee you will get the local school, and then you will have no school place.

Do you have a back up plan if you have no school place?

The language is unlikely to be enough for an appeal.

We only get 3 choices. I don’t think he will get any of the schools we want. I don’t think it’ll matter not putting the local school as there is no school as bad for miles and miles. It’s undersubscribed by over 100 children every year. I would rather he got sent to one of the better schools miles away!
I don’t know what I’ll do if he gets sent there.

The language is unlikely to be enough for an appeal.

Do you know what sort of things would help an appeal? I have some other reasons also.

Had I put it further down on the list we wouldn’t have got it. - JoyceByers that's true, in that you would (presumably) have got the school you did put as first choice.

What I mean is, some schools still promulgate the myth that "you have to put us first to stand a chance of getting in" - that's not true; you can get into a popular school even if you put it third, ahead of those putting it first, if you are higher up the qualifying criteria (usually that you live nearer) - that's assuming you don't qualify for the schools you have placed higher.

So yes, always put the school you really want in first place. There's nothing to lose by doing so - it won't reduce your chances of getting a school you put lower down (unless you get a place at your first choice, in which case no worries).

It’s undersubscribed by over 100 children every year. I would rather he got sent to one of the better schools miles away

But if all the schools you name on your CAF cannot offer your DS a place, because too many other applicants rank above him according to their oversubscription criteria (whether or not you use all your options), then if this is the nearest school in your LA with places, it is what you will be offered. The Admissions Code doesn't allow the LA to 'leapfrog' a suitable school in its allocations and 'unsuitable' isn't no-one else wants to go there either, so we can't allocate it to Child X, it's something like the school being girls only and Child X is a boy, or a fully selective school and Child X didn't pass the entrance test.

@FifteenFluffyBunnies

We only get 3 choices. I don’t think he will get any of the schools we want. I don’t think it’ll matter not putting the local school as there is no school as bad for miles and miles. It’s undersubscribed by over 100 children every year. I would rather he got sent to one of the better schools miles away! I don’t know what I’ll do if he gets sent there.

I understand what you are saying, we had a similar situation, but you do need a back up plan. In our case we could have got on waiting lists for other schools, as our town has several schools who are not oversubscribed.

Appeals must be based on
either - they have not followed their own admission criteria correctly. Eg they have not applied sibling rule correctly, or they have miscalculated your distance. This is very rare, but does happen. This is what is used when a family lie about where they live, and then lose their place and it is given to another child.

or - (more likely in your case) why this school is particularly important for your son. You can't use any arguments against another school you have been allocated, they must be about this school. Thinking about it, you might be able to use the language if you can give a link, eg German grandparents and so want German. Or even that he is godd at languages and wants to pursue them and he needs a school which offers more than 1 as he wants to study 2 at GCSE. You can use things like they have a strong music programme and he is a musician.
You can't use any reasons that relate to you, so things like you can't get him there, or have kids in another school so can't be in 2 places as once etc.
You could use the journey time (need a school close by) if you have some evidence that they will not cope with long journey (which doens't sound relevant to you).

@prh47 is the expert on this, so I have summoned her

itwillbelovely this is the site you want. Pop your postcode in and it will tell you all your closest schools with catchment & tables.

I'm really not sure what to do about ours. We have
A) selective co-ed school 45 mins by bus or train but very well regarded. We haven't been able to visit though as open day in June was cancelled. 2 or 3 kids from our school go there each year but am not sure about the distance & academic pressure. Dd1 will take the exam but is not keen & may but pass.
B) local girls school. 10 mins walk from our house, we're in catchment & has outstanding Ofsted but not as good as the selective school. Bit of a rumour of bitchiness & eating disorders but may just be the way with girls schools. It's pretty traditional but offers good range of subjects.
C) mixed comp. Not very academically ambitious but still had good Ofsted. 2 of Dd's best pals are going here and quite a lot of the boys in her class. Their open day last year was a shambles, but the teachers are young and engaged.

In a way I hope she doesn't get into the selective school as it will make the decision easier!

Stokey

I have 3 now at secondary, all at grammar as it happens, but the thing I notice most is that their own fundamental attitude to life and learning is the biggest influence on how they are doing at school.
eg
dc 1 Very infuenced by friends. If he had had a group of friends who did bare min homework and bunked off, he would have followed. It was because of this attitude that I was really keen to get him into the selective. There it is cool to be clever and he has done well.
dc2 Very much her own person, she would have got on with it anywhere, friendships and happiness were key, and she is a quiet person and was overwhelmed in primary by a difficult class in years 3 and 4. They remixed classes in year 5 and she blossomed. So for her, atmosphere and pastoral care were more important, as I knew academically she would knuckle down and where ever, and regardless of what the kids around are doing.
dc3, well the juries out!

So I would say look at your child, and see which school is the best fit.

Also, high staff turnover and key subjects not being filled by replacement staff is far more relevant that GCSE results.
And they make new friends in year 7 so it doesn't matter if they go up with others form their school or not.

Thanks Steppemum it's good advice. I guess I'm struggling with having two that are very local so I know quite a few kids there, and the selective one that's much further away so a bit of an unknown quantity. I think she sounds more like dc1 - tight group of friends that she's quite influenced by, hard to picture them all split up next year.

It is so difficult not being able to visit the schools. We have now done 2 virtual open evenings, and we managed to see the Grammar School in February.

Our options are:
School 1 (Grammar) - 20 miles away, so bus and train journey. DD might get in but is my no means a shoo in, and I worry that if she gets in, she might struggle to keep up. She is registered for the test and some others from her primary are also taking it.

School 2 (Catchment school) - has a terrible reputation, so not keen on this

School 3 - in a neighbouring town. We are a few hundred yards from the catchment boundary. Bus stop almost outside our house. Quite impressed with the virtual open day. I attended here 30 years ago and hated it!

School 4 - in the city we live on the outskirts of. Quick bus ride or she could feasibily walk. Again we are a couple of hundred yards from the catchment bounday. Good reputation locally. Haven't done any kind of virtual open day yet.

School 5 - in a village the other side of city to us. There is a bus from our village, but it will take 50 mins. Not great ofsted but parents do rate it. Most of her class will go here as she attends a feeder school in a village 5 miles away at present. Virtual open day was ok, but School 3 impressed more.

Schools 4 and 5 will be our back up, but it is difficult to make a decision about whether or not to try for the Grammar. School 3 will be top choice if not.

A few things I’ve noticed on this thread;

Put the schools in the order you want them
Other posters have said this, but it’s so important - you will not be negatively impacted by putting a school second. The schools don’t get to see what order you’ve put them in, and if you don’t get your 1st choice, your 2nd choice will be treated as if your 1st choice.

Filling in the form
It is illegal for schools to ask for information about, eg your child’s interests. The only exception is for faith schools where the admissions policy may include an element of church attendance (but not, eg, whether you are on the PCC, or are a server or a flower arranger). Admissions are done on a purely objective basis, and decisions are not made with discretion; the policy is applied and this will produce the list of offers.

Choose at least one realistic option
When you’re choosing your 3 schools, make sure one of them is a school that you have a good chance at - eg don’t put 3 lottery schools down - assuming that there is 1 that you are happy for them to go to. If you are not happy for them to go to any ‘possible’ school, then don’t put it down, because at appeal they will ask you whether you were allocated any of your options, and if you say ‘yes, but it’s impossible for them to go there’ then that doesn’t look good.

Appeals information
You are trying to prove that your case to a place for your child outweighs the school’s case that they are full. It is not entirely true to say that transport can’t be used in this, as someone said downthread; if the child will be getting themselves to school, and it is too far to walk, but the bus would be prohibitively long, then the panel may take this into account. It probably wouldn’t be enough on its own, but appeal, you can use anything you feel is helpful - they won’t stop you saying ‘you’re not allowed to use that!’ - it’s about painting a picture of your child and how life would be if they are not at the school you want.

As other PPs have said, condolences and good luck all!

For those who haven’t seen it, this site is good. I went not just on feel and fit but performance results. This tool allows you to compare schools, look at exam stats, population of school, absence records, Ofsted rating etc:

www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk

Someone has asked about catchment areas. For that, most schools have prior years catchment and where they eventually all come in from after 1st & 2 round offers buried in the Admissions part of their website.

Look also at out of area schools your DC can get into based on a talent or ability. Our local State school isn’t terrible but we got our now Year 8 DD into a better performing Girls State on a Music place. She had to go through an audition process for it but it wasn’t that gruelling

As Open Evenings will be virtual, you won’t be able to meet students which is a shame as that personally was part of what sold DD’s school to me. I have seen others though ask for opinions from current parents on community Facebook groups - that could be pretty useful!

Definitely look at Transport and again, if it’s going to involve Public Transport asking others parents on a community Facebook page with kids at X school how they find the journey is a good idea. Our DDs bus options are pretty limited and it’s turned out to be far more of a mare than we expected. Also DD does after school clubs and has a lot of homework - when she gets in after a club at 6pm getting her to do homework can be a bit stressful for all!

@peacockfeather11, had the same experience as you - minimal
Info and very late! Unfortunately it’s pretty much up to parents to do the legwork!

Hi new to here.
Ive totally messed up my childs application to 2nd school applied but now we are having 2nd thoughts and want the 2nd choice to be the first. Totally messed up with this due to not seeing any schools.
Now we havebeen offered a school 21 miles away which is a very good school which we put down as forst choice i had some wonderful idea thats he could get the bus and was going to the best school and we got offered a place but want her to go to school just 2 miles down the road. I know its a preference my preference has changed due to covid being at home for 11 weeks i dont really want her sat on a bus for 10 hours a week that costs 1000 a year which i am going to struggle to afford now due to loss of work through the pandemic. Please be kind.