Anybody else feel let down by CAG results

[SusanCant]

Does anybody else feel that although it was necessary for the govt to do a U turn on being able to use CAG results, their child has not benefitted from it as now grades seem to generally be over inflated. My ds goes to a school which has always been cautious with its predictions and it seems they also were with CAGs. Although he received A star, A , A he finds it frustrating that he wasn't given in an A star in a second subject as originally predicted. He finds friends from other less academic schools seem to have had much higher grades awarded as a result of their CAGs. Does anybody feel that their child's results have suffered as a result of being at a school with less than generous CAG predictions? Can one appeal a CAG result?

Again, it's not teacher results the pupils are getting. It's CAG results and of the Centre has done what it should these should have been altered

I've read accounts on line where students needed A A A and got two As and lost their place so it's not a foregone conclusion that he got into uni.

Not a foregone conclusion no. But quite likely. And I think OP would be telling us about if he had lost his place!

Secondly, I think it's easier to accept if you don't do well in an exam rather than some arbitrary calculations based on the school's historical results now are used to work out your grades. That's got nothing to do with the ability of individual students.

Yes, but I think that is an interesting psychological feature more than anything. Bit like people feeling safer when they are driving than in a self-driving car, regardless of the facts...Arguably a CAG (not the calculated grades) is a fairer representation of true ability than how a students happens to do on one arbitrary paper taken on one arbitrary day with some added variation in marking.

He can sit the exams in November if he wants to.

^^This.

I was waiting for the complaints to start re the CAGs. Last week the complaints were about not using the predicted grades, now this week the complaints have started about using the predicted grades. Not quite sure what you want, but as @PotteringAlong said he can always sit the exam.

@Valambtine. I agree 100% with your post.

@irregularegular

I've read accounts on line where students needed A A A and got two As and lost their place so it's not a foregone conclusion that he got into uni.

Not a foregone conclusion no. But quite likely. And I think OP would be telling us about if he had lost his place!

Secondly, I think it's easier to accept if you don't do well in an exam rather than some arbitrary calculations based on the school's historical results now are used to work out your grades. That's got nothing to do with the ability of individual students.

Yes, but I think that is an interesting psychological feature more than anything. Bit like people feeling safer when they are driving than in a self-driving car, regardless of the facts...Arguably a CAG (not the calculated grades) is a fairer representation of true ability than how a students happens to do on one arbitrary paper taken on one arbitrary day with some added variation in marking.

I wonder how many students have lost their places? Will we ever find out?

As for CAGs - how are they calculated? Are they based on an individual's performance or on the whole school?

I don't think your son should be making a big deal out of an A*/A really.

My son's CAGs were fair. I think he may have gone up a grade in one or two subjects if he had sat them, but they were fair - and the school had to be able to evidence them. They agreed on his aspirational/capable of grades but his CAGs are the grades they could evidence - so his solid grades.

He still went up a grade in every single subject so am just grateful for that and he was delighted.

I know ds's CAGs as I teach at his school.

They are a very fair reflection of where he was at when he sat his Mocks. Unfortunately, he spent Xmas with his dad who actively discouraged him from revising.

Ds knows he's messed up - he's getting mostly 7s & the odd 6 when he's capable of 8s & 9s. He doesn't know what grades he's getting as obviously I've not told him, but he's very aware he hadn't shown his teachers what he's capable of.

it's a life lesson. If it makes him pull his finger out in Sixth Form, & he's so pissed off with himself I think it might, it'll be rather good for him.

Absolute omnishambles all round.

I wonder how many students have lost their places? Will we ever find out?

No. Because we will never know what would have happened if students had done the exams. They've not "lost" places that they never had for sure. At the University that I work at, about 20% don't achieve their offer. For most students the CAG (essentially the teacher assessed grade, but checked by the school) is likely to be as good a measure of what they would have got as any. Generally erring on the favourable side if anything.

Thank you for all of the replies - so appreciate the different points of view. He didn't get into his first choice. He certainly doesn't think it's a tragedy but I feel he has a right to feel disappointed if his expectations were higher. I think his school has not erred on the favourable side and it's hard to rank 20 odd similar students in order when all of them are capable of getting the desired grade but only half of them can. He is already moving on but I still feel there are now some over inflated grades knocking around according to how schools did it and I just was interested to see if anybody else felt the same - this has provided a good perspective.

@irregularegular

I wonder how many students have lost their places? Will we ever find out?

No. Because we will never know what would have happened if students had done the exams. They've not "lost" places that they never had for sure. At the University that I work at, about 20% don't achieve their offer. For most students the CAG (essentially the teacher assessed grade, but checked by the school) is likely to be as good a measure of what they would have got as any. Generally erring on the favourable side if anything.

But I'm talking about students whose CAGs meet the university offer (and so had the CAGs been used last week they would have had the offer confirmed) but based on last week's results they didn't get accepted. Now this week they've met the terms of the offer but the university place has gone. How many students are in this position? I'm in a Facebook group for parents of university students and there were a fair few reports of students missing out last week, mainly from medical school. Now they might we be awarded the required grades but the place at university has gone. So, those students absolutely have missed out.

15 000 extra students made their first choice offer on CAGs rather than calculated grades.

@TheFallenMadonna

15 000 extra students made their first choice offer on CAGs rather than calculated grades.

But how many list places last week who would have got them had CAGs been used last week?

I think universities are doing their best to cope with the issue of having allocated their places and then discovered that a load more students have achieved their offer. They're taking as many as they can (and lack of overseas students may release a bit more accommodation), and some are making offers to those who are willing to defer.
Yes, that means more places than usual allocated for Oct 21 before the new year 13 apply, but with a year to plan for that, hopefully they will manage to accommodate more students than usual again.
The problem is probably bigger at the "top" universities - the midrange ones will have some people dropping out because they've now got into their first choice after all. The biggest problem of all is at the bottom end ones, because more students in the others means fewer for them. That's a problem for their finance department, though, not the students!

But I'm talking about students whose CAGs meet the university offer (and so had the CAGs been used last week they would have had the offer confirmed) but based on last week's results they didn't get accepted. Now this week they've met the terms of the offer but the university place has gone.

Are any universities not offering at least deferred offers to those students?

@irregularegular

But I'm talking about students whose CAGs meet the university offer (and so had the CAGs been used last week they would have had the offer confirmed) but based on last week's results they didn't get accepted. Now this week they've met the terms of the offer but the university place has gone.

Are any universities not offering at least deferred offers to those students?

I really don't know. I've not seen it discussed or reported anywhere.

Yes the universities have been told that if they make the offer then they have to either give them a place this year or a deferred place for next year.

Great news for the current year 12s who will not only have fewer university places available as some will already have been taken, but will also have been effected by missing a term and a bit of their A-level course-and then there will be the current year 13 students who decide to resit some next summer, giving them extra time to prepare for the exams which may take the grade boundaries up.

@Witchend

Yes the universities have been told that if they make the offer then they have to either give them a place this year or a deferred place for next year.

Great news for the current year 12s who will not only have fewer university places available as some will already have been taken, but will also have been effected by missing a term and a bit of their A-level course-and then there will be the current year 13 students who decide to resit some next summer, giving them extra time to prepare for the exams which may take the grade boundaries up.

And that's not fair on the year 13s who now have an enforced gap year. It's an utter shambles

@Witchend

Yes the universities have been told that if they make the offer then they have to either give them a place this year or a deferred place for next year.

Great news for the current year 12s who will not only have fewer university places available as some will already have been taken, but will also have been effected by missing a term and a bit of their A-level course-and then there will be the current year 13 students who decide to resit some next summer, giving them extra time to prepare for the exams which may take the grade boundaries up.

Yes, this is my worry regarding my son who is year 12 going into year 13. I don't dispute that his whole situation has been very difficult for a number of school years, but I do feel that the current year 12 have been disproportionately affected. As you say, they have been out of school for around a fifth of their A level courses but as far as we know at present are going to be expected to sit their exams as normal next year. Or at least that is what our school have told us. We've done our best to support DS and have managed to find tutors for 2 of his A levels but not the third, which has helped, but I still don't think he is where he would be had he been in school. This year group have also been disadvantaged by not being able to go to any real University open days etc and now they find out that the places available to them are likely to be much reduced due to the need to accomodate extra students from this year. I wonder if the Universities are going to increase entry requirements next year to try to balance the numbers out? My DS is very demoralised by the whole situation and I don't know what I can say to reassure him as I suspect his concerns are well founded.

Talking to someone in Higher Ed, I think it's more likely that they will try and ensure there are enough places nect year to accommodate the normal number coming direct from school plus the increased deferrals. They will know the deferral numbers early in the year, so plenty of time to plan, talk to government if caps need to be increased, etc.

One thing to say to the cohort halfway through A-levels at the moment is that they will be better prepared for university study, as they have had to study rather more independently. We can look forward to them being a good cohort.

Re-sitters will increase the numbers taking A-levels next summer, but they won't necessarily all be at the top end.

I think it's really difficult situation. I do think the Unis are doing a sterling job of tackling this, from what I can see.

If we are gong into a recession, then increased numbers in training, some of which can be done virtually, is a good thing generally.

But all very worrying for the teenagers, who can't even have parties and have had much less normal fun with their mates really. It is miserable for so many of them.

twitter.com/RosieisaHolt/status/1296367598343421954?s=19

Not really relevant to the thread but funny.

twitter.com/RosieisaHolt/status/1296367598343421954?s=19

Very funny FUT

@FUTeams Correction! - Very relevant to the thread

@FUTeams Even I - the OP - thought that was very funny

I asked for a subject access review yo look atd grades for ne of his subjects. He had worked do closelycwoth a teacher througout who had continually compared to his work througout to the marking scheme and repeatedly consented to my don and my he was within the top 5f of Mark's gor the entire coursework piece (constitutes for 70%) his mark came back a "c. Tye second piece was unable to be completed tie to lockdown so it simply was marked with only the basic points it had learnt do far therefore generating virtually nothing towards the total.. ofqual stipulates grades were to pr presented as if the stient had reached the end of the course of unualn how would they have fared. To make matters worse, we thought this was a DT course (it definitely was at the start taught by dt teachers) ge and a few other worked on fashion pathways do were entered into fashion textiles art a levels. No teachers could help them and no one understood processes yo be able to mark them. It a shambles.
It seems that school has misunderstood about marking as if the student had completed the course as they have marked similarly for pre u just marking what was done by lock don and not making a precition based on evidence as yo how that would have developed.
I think I need yo ask the exam boards.