Do you think A levels will go ahead as normal next year?

[ITonyah]

Given how much education some (note the use of SOME!) year 12s and possibly going into year 13s have missed?

A lot of parents of the children who will really suffer are not on MN at all. They have no/limited internet access and children study in the library or school. For parents and children in poverty they can’t just go online or print things out. I know that schools in deprived areas are doing their best. There is a scheme to provide technology but this is only a recent thing so I doubt they will have it

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/education-52341596

While a lot of learning may be self directed for some subjects this is not the case for subjects such as drama, art, science and other class based courses. Plus a significant number of students are doing the IB or IBCP. My own child is doing a training qualification at college which requires a certain amount of supervised hours and work experience, neither of which he is getting now. If he doesn't get his qualification this year how can he progress to the next level next year? Thousands of 16-18 year old are in non school based vocational courses that requires this kind of training and this has not been addressed.
My other child is in Y10 and is at a private school that is providing full schedule of online learning and they have extended the term by a couple weeks. But she is till worried that they will fall behind on the syllabus and recognises the value of discussion and interaction between pupils and teachers that just cannot be replicated.
One option is for the boards to delay the exams by one month. They will still be done by mid july (instead of mid June) and with preparation have extra exam markers to get results for August. This will go some way to make up for missing much of this summer term.

Its always been the case that rich parents can afford tuition over and above normal state schooling. That is what is happening now. If you want to end inequality then you will need to end wealth.

Up until 23/3 everyone of school age had the opportunity to attend full time education. The quality of that education is not the point here. Everyone had the opportunity to go to school and be taught. Now, the amount of education children receive appears totally inconsistent and patchy with state schools offering less than fee-paying establishments. That's the problem and it's a new problem I'm afraid, one that people in power are so far trying to ignore.

I can see that privately educated kids will actually, ironically, be disadvantaged by having been educated when state schools aren’t.

Up until 23/3 everyone of school age had the opportunity to attend full time education
That is a very relative statement. Wealthy families have always had the opportunity to give their children 'more' education. After 23/3 all children have still had the opportunity to learn. Even if school had continued many vulnerable and disadvantaged would still not be accessing 'full time' education.

The virus has just exposed that life is not equal and wealth does give more opportunities. Its just a fact of life, harsh as that may be.

A-levels will go ahead as usual and children from wealthy families will do better as usual. Has always been so.

Zombiefan I think you're missing the point.
Of course wealthy families could give children "more" education - or better education - before. But don't you think that the divide is now a lot worse and this will reflect very strongly in A Level results next year? Don't you think it'd be worth trying to find a solution that prevents this further significant divide from materialising next year?

Agreed notabeliever it is tremendously unfair. Parents whose kids are at private school pay for small classes, more attention (they are fools if they think they are getting better teachers) and more enrichments activities/facilities. All the extra stuff has gone but the school and the pupils have the tech to have online learning all the time.

My dd is doing her best to teach herself her three A-level subjects. She is being set the work. She’s had two online lessons (in 8 weeks) - she’s at a ‘top’ grammar school. She can email her teachers questions but mostly they are just sent power points, she works through them and then does work in response to them. If it was as easy to learn as that, why bother having teachers at all?! She’s doing two science subjects so missing out on huge amount of practicals too.

The shift in the grade boundaries will have to happen but it is desperately unfair that the private school kids who have simply had more teaching should create the top of the boundary grades. Kids who are intelligent (more intelligent than a lot of their high scoring private school contemporaries) will have missed some of the nuance of topics because of lack of teacher input.

My other dc is in year 10 - we’ve really hit the bloody jackpot this year .

Zombie, yes there will always be young people who are totally unmotivated to learn, whether schools are open or not. But physically having to show up to a classroom situation 8.30- 4 every day, at least suggests that they’re absorbing something; they’re in a routine and they’re not being allowed to completely fall off the wagon.

Yes, schools vary, but a classroom setting does standardise education to some extent, surely you can see that? At the very least, in a classroom, you are protected from having to care for younger kids. Your are protected from things such as patents arguing; domestic violence or lack of food - at least for the bulk of the day. This is what a lot of students will have been experiencing during lockdown. It’s hard to keep motivated at the best of times if you’re attending school from those circumstances, let alone if you’re learning within them, with no friends or other adults for support.

I can see that privately educated kids will actually, ironically, be disadvantaged by having been educated when state schools aren’t

How on earth do you come to that conclusion?!

(they are fools if they think they are getting better teachers)

Maybe, in normal times. But every single one of my dds teachers are still teaching her completely as normal. She's working through the syllabus with time for lots of enrichment and discussion.

At the moment it is a private v some state schools issue but at the heart of it it is a technology issue which in turn becomes a financial issue.

I've always grumbled about paying fees when our local state is usually very good but the provision has been patchy at best according to friends.

Or maybe none of it matters and pupils should be doing their own learning as Pps have suggested.

Absolutely. No reason not to. My DS is currently working hard on 2 sets of coursework required for 2 of his A levels. Yr12 should be working this term, if you don’t feel school is providing for them, I would contact your school. I wouldn’t be relying on ‘lower grade boundaries’.

Yr12 should be working this term, if you don’t feel school is providing for them, I would contact your school

I'm not sure I would have trusted myself to have any idea whether they were being provided with suitable work!

I think there is a misconception about what is being offered in private v state. I think it is more likely to be a better prepared school v a less well prepared school. Never mind which sector good and bad in each. I do agree the state school will have more pupils in the disadvantaged categories but many seem to think that because of this they need to adjust their offering downwards whereas perhaps they shouldn't but then have additional support for those people on return. Disclaimer- this just occurred to me and I haven't thought it through properly.

iTonyah - may I ask why you usually grumble about school fees if your state school locally is usually good. If that is the case why did you choose to go private? I am not trying to be comparative, merely interested. Mine is indie too with good local provision but we chose for specific reasons and never once grumble about the fees because the school is doing exactly what we were looking for when making that choice.

I think there is a misconception about what is being offered in private v state. I think it is more likely to be a better prepared school v a less well prepared school

True, but being reliant on parents paying fees will concentrate the mind of all fee paying schools, or should anyway.

I do know a private school near us who pride themselves on their pen and paper, no phones, climbing trees approach. They are totally struggling as noone has a proper technological plan. Whereas our school insisted all pupils had a good quality pen enabled tablet 2 years ago - much moaning from the parents but very glad we did it now!

iTonyah - may I ask why you usually grumble about school fees if your state school locally is usually good. If that is the case why did you choose to go private?

Because fees for 2 are over 40k a year and that would be a bloody struggle even for very well off people?

I'm not hugely confident schools will return in September either. I suppose that will be when decisions are made.

Please stop saying this is a private svjool/ state school tning. I know of private schools that are not offering live remote teaching and my dad's state 6th form college is. It's not every teacher and it's not for the same duration as a classroom lesson but it is there. Plus teachers responding to queries by students in real time or via email.

This is a 6th form with a huge disadvantaged population. The college ensured everyone who didn't have a device was given one before lockdown. They are used to supporting kids from disadvantaged homes.

Schools should be prioritising their year 12 students. Year 10 also but its a bit more difficult to expect motivation from 14/15 year old still doing subjects they have not chosen.

A levels I feel are different. You've chosen to study those subjects. You get out what you put in. You already should be capable of independent learning. I'd be happy with some kids getting their grades adjusted on the basis of extenuating circumstances E g caring for you get siblings as their parents a key worker. Living in temporary accommodation etc..

I will not be happy if something is done that means the 2021 cohort go through life known as having dumbed down A level grades because there's a load of kids who can't be bothered and are spending the day in bed and all night on their xbox. If their parents are not happy, they can retake the year.

Not dad's. Dd's

Fortyfifty

I've been very careful to say "some state schools" and have given examples of private schools that aren't coping. Not sure what else I can do.

If a private school is not providing pretty much a 'normal' teaching day with on-line learning/support etc then I would be on the school 24/7 and pulling my child.

I don't think this is a comparison of private vs state at all. It is about the fact that some state schools are providing no teaching whatsoever, that is nothing to do with private schools at all. Private school parents are paying twice, their choice, and when you pay for something you expect to get what you are paying for. They are fulfilling their contractual obligation.

I would also like to understand what this means:

I can see that privately educated kids will actually, ironically, be disadvantaged by having been educated when state schools aren’t

My dd is doing her best to teach herself her three A-level subjects. She is being set the work. She’s had two online lessons (in 8 weeks) - she’s at a ‘top’ grammar school. She can email her teachers questions but mostly they are just sent power points, she works through them and then does work in response to them. If it was as easy to learn as that, why bother having teachers at all?! She’s doing two science subjects so missing out on huge amount of practicals too.

Jacobieathan I could have written your post myself. My DS is also doing three sciences at A Level and getting pretty much the same level of input as your DD. It's not great. As you say, if learning effectively can happen with some power points, videos and emailing your tutor why having Sixth Form at all?

@brakethree it does feel like state schools can get away with doing a lot less live tuition compared with private schools because otherwise parents would kick up a fuss and stop paying fees. That's so unfair on the children who go to state schools.

By the way, I'm making a direct comparison between my DS who's at a top (State) Sixth Form and my friends' children who are at an indie Sixth Form 100 metres away from DS's school and studying the same subjects.

As you say, if learning effectively can happen with some power points, videos and emailing your tutor why having Sixth Form at all?

Good question.

Some teachers at private schools have young children. They can't teach a full day unless they have a partner who is furloughed.

Dd2 is at a private school. Remote lessons but cut down in length. Timetable condensed, so fewer periods taught for each subject. No faces seen. Mike's off for kids. Some teachers narrating power points. Dd2 is still having to do a lot of independent study around the 'taught' lesson. They are not ideal. Can't differentiate. Teachers have no inkling of who is understanding what. Some kids and teachers live in poor broadband areas. Some aren't turning up. Some join the lesson but don't watch it. Some are being silly in chat. Many lessons are boring because teachers can't teach the way they normally do. It's not a perfect substitution. What is does do is give the kids accountability and routine.

But this can be replicated without live remote teaching. I know of state schools who are sending out work or pre-recording lessons and then are available for 2 hours to answer live chat queries as the pupils work through it.

I'm not pointing the finger at any schools. This was spring on all with little time to prep and gather evidence of best practice. More should have been done centrally and disseminated to schools.

Just don't think that live teaching is making as big a difference as people think. Languages could well be the subject with the most difference between live and non live lessons.