Do you think A levels will go ahead as normal next year?

[ITonyah]

Given how much education some (note the use of SOME!) year 12s and possibly going into year 13s have missed?

A levels I feel are different. You've chosen to study those subjects. You get out what you put in. You already should be capable of independent learning

To an extent, but the fact remains that if it were all about independent learning we wouldn't need A level teachers, you'd just have online courses and someone to make multiple choice tests.

There are certain teens are who really motivated and working hard. All to do with superior "parenting" naturally, nothing to do with natural drive and personality.

In the real world, most are not. They want to see their friends, play on the xbox, do their hobbies and will work when they need to. But it's not going to be easy working when they need to if they have missed well over a term of teaching.

mark tests not make

There are certain teens are who really motivated and working hard. All to do with superior "parenting" naturally, nothing to do with natural drive and personality

Ha ha. Not me. I have one of each.

Yes I also have one of each

Yes, grades are always "standardised" (aka fiddled) so that the pre-agreed number of pupils fall into each grade boundary. They try to argue otherwise by claiming the standardisation process is to take account of whether the exam is harder/easier than normal. So, if all pupils consistently get, say, 10% fewer marks due to Covid, the grade boundaries will fall by the equivalent of 10%. The problem will be where some schools have put more effort into remote/distant teaching than others, so the whole cohort won't have been affected to the same extent.

but the fact remains that if it were all about independent learning we wouldn't need A level teachers, you'd just have online courses

Which is what does happen now. Lots of people "self study" for GCSE and A levels without "live" teachers.

DD is taking three science A Levels. I asked her whether she feels like she's missed out during lockdown, and she says she feels she is about at the same level she would have been had she been at school. She's followed the syllabus and hasn't got any gaps in learning so far. But, she has always gone on to the next topic before the class is due to do it. She does a lot of extra work and I've told her this will benefit her in the long run, compared to some of her peers who have admitted they are doing the bare minimum.

What's worrying her is that she is revising for end of year exams that she might not take. Information from the school is sketchy as to what they are going to do. Again, I've told her she an only do what she thinks is right for her and all the revision isn't going to hurt. She revises and note takes as she goes along anyway. She needs 3 As to apply to University and she just doesn't know if she'll have done enough to secure that if they don't have mock exams. I'm hoping they will at least have a conversation with each student to see what their aspirations are and an honest discussion about whether they think it's possible.

It's the uncertainty that is unnerving and I can't even think about next year's exams yet as this year is still so up in the air.

Dds school has told them no exams at all this year.

@NotABeliever - sorry I don't understand why this isn't fair to state school pupils. Private schools parents pay huge fees and have a contract with the school, if the schools don't provide the education they would be in breach of contract. I expect my DCs school to provide on-line lessons and I don't expect excuses like 'well the teachers have children and they can't do both. There are thousands of people jugging - whether it's right or not is not the point, they are going over and above to keep their jobs. From what I understand the unions have pretty much 'no' to anything - no to on-line teaching, no to marking etc and many schools and teachers are following this to the letter. They could of course find ways around this - many schools are - however it would seem a lot aren't. It is SOME schools, Heads, SLT and teachers that are choosing to disadvantage the children by not providing an education to the best of their ability. I hope that they are all working to improve this situation.

@brakethree I agree! I'm not saying private schools should do less. I'm saying that state schools should do more!

If nothing else, something will need to be done about the practical endorsement for Science A-levels. Currently passing this section of the A-level is required by a lot of unis for science courses, but at the moment, obviously no schools are able to provide practical work for students.

Even when some in school teaching is taking place, it's unlikely that any practical science will be going on for a while yet. There's guidance from CLEAPSS about how some practicals could be done whilst social distancing, but IMO, the guidance makes many practicals unworkable- so the choice is to not follow health and safety guidance, or to not do practicals. This will apply to private schools just as much as it will to state schools, although private school teachers may have more time to spend setting up/taking down equipment and disinfecting goggles etc.

Obviously, in some ways, this isn't a major issue, but it does show that some adaptations will be needed to some qualifications beyond just changing grade boundaries.

Sansa - I think they’ve already has to adapt the Geography A-level because there is a fieldwork component worth 20% of the total (I think, might be more). So they’ve missed that because it should have been earlier this term.

Also, DS is studying a language A-level and he’s lucky to still be getting his one-hour conversation session per week, but I wonder how widespread this is? Languages are something you need to keep up and March to Sept is a long time without any specific conversation practise.

But don't you think that the divide is now a lot worse and this will reflect very strongly in A Level results next year?
I dont think the divide will be that vast. When schools get back they will do lots of catch up work/classes. Out of 14 years education, getting remote learning for a few months wont change things that much. Y10s will be sorted out in sixth form. Y12s should be working independantly and those best at that will fair better. Resitting is always an option.

You cant mark down kids who know more.

Zombie - you have made rather sweeping statements about lazy year 12 students, not marking the higher achieving students down etc. I presume you are in the fortunate position of having DC in a private school /school with full on-line teaching?
I have nothing against private schools but I worry that many capable, hardworking students will suddenly be at a disadvantage over and above the normal private vs state divide. Surely you agree that in an ideal world some adjustment should be attempted to take into account differing teaching provision /home environment over and above grade boundary adjustments? I understand this won't be easy to calculate.

I have a Y12 DD and I am not concerned about her for next year or for the DC of anyone else posting in the education section of MN. Education attracts a very different type of poster from the AIBU type posters, these are posters interested in education, aspirational for their DCs and they will ensure that their DCs do the required work regardless of attitude.
It is those at the bottom who will suffer. It is far easier for councils like Hartlepool and Liverpool to refuse to re-open the schools or not provide an online alternative than it would be for schools in wealthy areas with demanding parents like Surrey. One of the DCs in the documentary Generation Gifted was at school in Hartlepool, the careers teacher had to google "physicist" because she had no idea what A levels he should study.

altmum No, just a 'bog standard' state secondary. They have an ECHP for health reasons but not in Y10 or 12 though. Getting minimal work from school but I have high expectations, they have been brought up to love learning and are more than capable of self studying (which I realise gives them an advantage in life). The internet has more than enough free resources to keep them learning indefinitely.

I have nothing against private schools but I worry that many capable, hardworking students will suddenly be at a disadvantage As pp have said its not state v private their are state schools providing good online work and some private ones doing badly. How do you identify who has been disadvantaged, and what do you propose doing for them? I think the solution is catch up classes when they return to school.

One thing I am against is marking down private school children just because they are in a private school, its not their fault this has happened. Bright motivated children will find a way to fill in any gaps in their learning, I dont think their will be massive disadvantage created.

Out of 14 years education, getting remote learning for a few months wont change things that much

But it's not 14 years is it? It is 3 months out of 18 months. And self directed learning is great but you also need to learn what's on the syllabus and what the examiners are looking for. Dd2 goes down a black hole of reaearch sometimes but it's not necessarily anything that will help her A level grades!

I'm also not expecting schools back in September either to be honest.

If you think about it, A-level are 5 terms because the 6th term is a couple of weeks of study leave before the exams in May. So to miss practically a whole term is to miss 20% of the course.

If unis are emailing right now to say that all lectures will be online next year (only small seminars of several students will be allowed to enable social distancing), how will senior schools be able to operate in Sept?

There are some strange views coming through here!

Motivated kids at state schools may well be fine. Some of the brightest kids at state schools will have found this period where they can move at their own pace and get more of their work marked than usual really good as most schools have mixed ability classes in sixth form which can move frustratingly slowly.

The vast majority of state school kids are not very self-motivated, particularly boys. My Y11 DS (predicted all 7/8/9 for GCSE, so bright and works well at school) has done almost no school work for the last 2 months (sleeping, gaming, working out). Y11 are in a strange position, but parents of DC in other years have not mentioned any on line lessons at all. As other posters have said, whether any work is done is largely dependent on parents. Friends with DC at private schools have full day timetables, even including registration, so they are keeping the work ethic going and must be making more progress than the majority of their state school counterparts.

State schools here were due to break up 20/7 where we live. There should have been 192 days of school in the year (after training days and bank holidays). Of those 121 were up to and including 20/3, 72 were post school closure. So those in the non-exam years have lost 37% of the school year face-to-face. As another poster mentioned, most of the syllabus is generally covered by Easter of Y13, so the home-learning time is around 30% of the whole course time in a normal year.

All secondary school exams will kind of have to as they will not have enough information on the pupils from two terms worth of study to do teacher assessment. It does seem very unfair though and I do agree years 10 and 12 are the ones who will suffer most as a result.

self directed learning is great but you also need to learn what's on the syllabus and what the examiners are looking for
The syllabus is available online and the mark schemes which show what examiners are looking for are also available online. Its not a replacement for being in school 100% but its enough to keep progressing for missing a few months.

the 6th term is a couple of weeks of study leave
Many schools dont have 'study leave' that time can easily be used for extra catch up lessons.

But if schools dont go back in September its a whole different ball game. Could they use predicted grades again? I think unlikely.

Seems likely to me that schools will go back on a reduced timetable to enable social distancing, so most of next year maybe 50% in school, 50% home learning. So practical subjects will be worst affected. No idea how parents of young children would manage.

I'm really hoping they remove the practical component of the exam for the a level and gcse sciences. The health and safety advice we've had so far is prohibitive for all but the smallest immaculately behaved groups

Which is what does happen now. Lots of people "self study" for GCSE and A levels without "live" teachers

I don't think it's "lots". The percentage will be tiny, and mainly adults, though you do have some home-schooled children following online courses.

And as I've said elsewhere on here, people have different learning styles. That is supposedly very important until it comes to teens who need face to face learning and they they're just lazy and unmotivated and need to grow up and why do they need a teacher anyway.