Winchester, St. Paul's, or Eton?

[PGWo]

I hope you all are staying safe.

My son is learning remotely from his prep school. He is about to finish year six, and our headmaster said he would be a good candidate to sit a scholarship examination for a public school.

Our son is very academic and dislikes sport. The headmaster recommends Winchester and St. Paul's, but has mentioned that Eton may be a good choice.

We want to give him an all-boy's, boarding school education. Any insight would help, especially about bullying and academic quality.

Well, PerditaPE, some people just because they think they are the OP feel bloody entitled and empowered to block another poster who has every right to post what that's really their own opinions. Particularly when they are actually responding to some earlier comments posted by some others regarding the directions old boys of particular schools take after leaving school.

Tell you what, OP, you should really thank your lucky star and feel honoured that I had given you some of my precious time today by writing those few messages as I really, absolutely do not need to because I do not need anything from you.

We're in the same boat, because I don't need anything from you either!

I would love to hear your thoughts on the schools in question. However, if you're going to be talking about politics then you're derailing the conversation.

Eton is far better. Winchester is socially cut off from other schools and far too little emphasis is placed on sports and drama, art etc. There's a reason why Eton's got 20 PMs. It's cool but not socially very pressured compared to other places, whereas Win Coll has a stiff, awkward rep. Just seems Eton develops everything else far more.
St Pauls if London Day is what you want - they are two very different things to sign your son up to. Boarding's not for everyone - I'd make sure it was completely his choice either way. There are benefits of boarding but these can easily be lost if one really hates it.
Make sure he rly wants to board or is pretty keen on it and don't go for Winchester.

I think reading this board should give you a good idea of where you want your son to go.

You can look at the pro Etonian posters and what they espouse. Are they measured, liberal and generally give a balanced view?

Look at the pro Winchester parents and apply the same criteria.

Who do you want your son to be like? Who do you want to meet up with for the next 5 years 🙂

Both schools select academically able boys and provide them with the environment to thrive. Both schools provide a good, but different flavour of soft skills. Both sets of boys will swear that their school is the best (as will the parents) for all the reasons that are most important to them. It is why they chose the school.

I (and my son) chose Winchester. It was right for us in a way Eton wouldn’t have been. DS knows lots of boys who chose Eton, they are all lovely, well balanced boys. He obviously knows even more from Winchester, who are equally lovely - but they “fit” him better. It’s not surprising they do. That is why you are unlikely to get the sort of answer you want on this forum, but it will give a good guide to where to go.

Not all students get much out of art, drama and sport. Eton send very few to Oxbridge in STEM subjects. This thread alone would put many prospective parents off Eton! Realistically this is a disadvantage of all boarding schools and you would ideally want to allow your son to have as much choice as possible - being forced to engage in a very particular range of sports if he doesn't enjoy it will be hell. Much better he has the space and opportunity to actually discover his passions and pursue them.

"whereas Win Coll has a stiff, awkward rep."
Does it? Ive seen many comments about Winchester over the years both positive and negative but a "stiff awkward rep" I don't recall seeing regularly if at all.
I agree with Witchlight choose the one that suits you and feels right, we felt comfortable at Winchester we liked the staff the relaxed ethos the focus on academia, the boys we met, choosing your HM and registering with a house, the importance of the HM at Winchester, the lengthy personal admissions process etc we just. didn't feel the same at Eton other friends hated Winchester they couldn't see what they were "buying into" one said. others friends hated both and chose somewhere else.
Look at all three with an open mind.

Oooh OP you are being really horrid to posters on this thread, and you will find that bitesyou as it makes others like me who know these schools think why should we bother help?

"We're in the same boat, because I don't need anything from you either!"

Yes, you do need me to tell you that you're a hypocrite and an actor! One who appears here on false pretences asking about 3 schools whilst clearly your mind is already made up on one long ago.

Why ask about St Paul's and Eton when your heart is set on Winchester?

Why ask about St Paul's when you're specifically looking for an all-boys boarding public school education?

To quote a poster upthread, "If you're already at a prep school you should already know all you need to know about the relative merits of the public schools in question."

There were at least 3 other posters - including YOURSELF - who talked about politics even before I had seen this thread. So what's your big idea about telling us Addington, a Tory Prime Minister who went to WinColl?

"I would love to hear your thoughts on the schools in question."

Right from my very first posting, and subsequenly, I had given more than enough on the school I know best, Eton, which you did ask about in your OP. It's just that you refused to listen and see because your mind is already made up.

I don't think I was rude at all; I just did not want people to derail the conversation from schools to politics.

For someone who says that banter and teasing is good, you seem to be very angry!

I mind isn't made up. I'm not sure where you get the impression.

St. Paul's offers boarding.

I wasn't talking about politics. Someone said WinColl had never produced a PM, and I simply corrected that. It was about history, not politics.

I would love to hear your thoughts on Eton, Winchester, etc. as long as you stay on topic.

OP you had a similar thread last year, your DS was in year 5 then despite being ‘11 turning 12’. If you have a genuine question about these schools, the relevance of any views that others can post will depend on your DS’s real age and year.

St Paul’s does offer boarding and we seriously considered it but then and I’m pretty sure now it only had a very small number of boarders about 30 when we looked at it, the vast majority were in the 6th form. I’m not saying it’s not an option for your DS it would offer more flexibility for both of you especially if you lived close by, you can for example take your DS out for dinner or to the opera/theatre in the evenings in the weekday and of course he could come home every weekend but unlike Eton or Winchester it isn’t a 24/7 boarding school with all that entails. Those we spoke to at the school never claimed that the school offered the same ethos environment opportunities that a full boarding school does. I’m not saying it’s not an amazing school or that it doesn't have fantastic facilities and opportunities but when the vast majority will have gone home by 16 30-1700 at the latest your DS’s boarding experience will just not be the same as that which he would get at a school like Eton or Winchester. The staff were very keen that we understood that St Paul’s is a “day school with boarders” as opposed to a boarding school. Secondly the vast majority of scholars come from the junior school so you would definitely need a back up plan if your DS was unsuccessful in getting a scholarship.
I’m curious to know why your prep school head hasn’t suggested Westminster? It has more boarders that SPS.
You don’t say if your DS already has a place at any of the above or anywhere else for that matter as I said before competition for scholarships at all three is very fierce and it’s not a done deal however bright your DS might be. I think generally most boys only prepare for one school as well and I’ve got it in my head although maybe incorrectly that Winchester and maybe the others do require some sort of pre test to stop boys sitting it who haven’t got a hope in hell of getting it. Again your prep school if they know what they are talking about should be able to advise you on which scholarship exam would suit your DS best and if any pre testing is required.

Personally I've always thought St. Paul's was a bit nuts, I wouldn't send anything but the most competitive child there. It also couldn't be considered a real boarding experience.

I'm also curious about why you haven't considered Westminster? I have one son there and it's a great school but be warned, they will let your son do his own thing i.e. fall behind if that's what is to be.

I have one at Eton and I couldn't say more about what an amazing school it is. The tutor and the housemaster and the dame form a little team that care for every aspect of the boy. It is strange how well they know my son.

He was originally to go to Winchester but not only are we in London and did we want to see him very often (which we do), but he is more an alpha and we thought he'd fit in better there.

The societies are really what sets Eton apart from the others, mine is interested in medicine so he'll often go to an evening lecture on how memory works or growing organs in labs or whatever.

As you'll know, Winchester is considered the more academic between the two and often mentioned in the same breath as Westminster.

If he's uber-smart, I would also consider the scholarship. It's way more interesting for the kids than C/E, even if they ultimately don't clear the scholarship hurdle.

I don't really see the point of these threads tbh. All are fantastic schools, but are very different from each other, and suit different boys, and these threads always descend into the same old bun fight (usually with the same people wielding the buns).

We had initially considered Winchester for our DS but were steered towards Eton as a better fit, which I think was absolutely right - he left three years ago having had a great time there. I can tell you quite a lot about that school, but I wouldn't have anything of value to say about Winchester. Realistically the same goes for parents with boys at Winchester unless they have boys at both schools.

You can only tell which will be best for you by going to visit the schools in question with, if you are a genuine OP, your DS in tow!

I don't really see the point of these threads tbh ...

Oddly enough I found the independent school threads astonishingly helpful more than a decade ago when we first started assessing possibilities. And I think they still can be - but en masse rather than individually.

So if I were a parent considering prep/public schools now I would, rather than starting a thread, simply search each named school and read those entire threads, as there's always a good deal of comparison going on. One has to wade through a vast amount of sheer rubbish - especially on boarding - but (despite name changes) one soon learns which posters have current, useful experience to share.

Westminster is coeducational. That's why we aren't considering it.

I'm afraid you may have misread my post. Our son is uninterested in sport, so a school that does not place emphasis on sport isn't a drawback at all.

Wow I don't think OP was rude at all although some of the posters here are massively over invested in their son's school. Completely bizzare competitiveness over which school is "better" which is not at all attractive and actually probably very off putting to any parent who might be thinking about these schools (especially Eton - the posters trying to sell it make it sound absolute dire!).

If you think producing Boris Johnson (a man with a huge amount of confidence and absolute no substance) is a massive selling point you obviously value fairly superficial characteristics in a school. Obviously it's also ridiculous to imagine that playing sport is the only way to become competitive - a daft suggestion. How many scientisits has each school produced? How many novelists? How many published papers does the school have from it's alumni? How kind do the boys turn out to be? How many boys have gone on to do great humanitarian work?

To imagine that one school is objectively better is ridiculous. Most people want a school which encourages their son's interests, allows him to reach his potential academically and gives him the space to actually discover his own passions (rather than forcing a pre determined set of hobbies on him with a view to channeling him into a very specific career path). Ultimately they also want a school which provides an enviornment in which he'll be happy - this clearly won't be the same for every boy so people saying "X school is better because it does more sport" or because "boys are more competitive and less awkward" make fools of themsleves. One boy will thrive in a compeitive environment another will resent wasting time on so much sport and would prefer to build robots in his spare time with his geeky friends.

There is no one better school - there are schools more suited to certain boys. If your self worth is tied up in the fact your boy goes to "the best school" it's all going to come crashing down in a few years when he's off living his life and no one wants to listen to you droning on about your son's old school any more.

I live within tdo minutes walk of St Paul’s Boys and it’s just seen as a local school really. Yes there’s an entrance exam, but it’s no more competitive than most other day schools in the area. That’s SW London for you. I don’t think there’s many boarders there. Most boys are local, Barnes, Putney, etc or come in by tube. DS was offered a place there, but this was when the buildings were very scruffy a few years back, just before they were embarking on the refurb. It was so grey and grim. He went to a school directly across the river which is co-ed. I know loads of boys from SP and they’re just normal kids, quite scruffy and more serious than average, I’d say. The site looks better than it did, but some of those minimalist new buildings will be an eyesore in a few years. Very different to Eton and Winchester, I would think? Totally different experience.
In London, the only ones who bother with boarding are the ones who can’t get into the day schools. The boarding selection is slightly less competitive as a smaller target audience.
Just have a go at them all and see which one you get (If any). If you’re considering SP, you might as well consider Westminster? Or you may consider a move to London and then you could have a go for 11 plus for Kings Wimbledon, CLBS, Latymer Upper, Hampton. All much of a muchness.

Also, what on earth does the pp mean about everyone at Eton wanting to beat a certain internal college in the same way as everyone wants to beat England?

I think you may find, nobody gives a hoot about England - well, no more than the next country anyway.

"How many scientisits has each school produced? How many novelists? How many published papers does the school have from it's alumni? How kind do the boys turn out to be? How many boys have gone on to do great humanitarian work?"

That just about sums it all up for me. You are obviously totally ignorant, absent-minded and incoherent in your thoughts.

It's only just a few short months ago that the whole of the UK gave their resounding approval, support and confidence in BoJo, a man who according to you has "absolute no substance" but has in the process decimated his rivals - an achievement not seen in nearly a century (85 years). Well, I really wonder what "substance" you have; and whatever you have, why aren't you running (say) a company, or a school or hospital or any organisation/institution etc instead of wasting your time here in front of a keyboard communicating with faceless individuals with fictitious names?

Are you for real?

BoJo and politics were/are being discussed here by me because the subject was first introduced here by some others with quite a lot of inaccuracies (including now by yourself) and I merely appeared to refute these inaccuracies.

Now that you've mentioned some other aspects (beside politics) that you think are also important for a school to produce and assume Eton don't have them, let me now just quickly say again how wrong and ignorant you are. A few quick examples, and I do mean a few: one of the world's greatest economists, John Maynard Keynes was an OE. The soldier who defeated Napoleon Bonaparte at the Battle of Waterloo was an OE. The winner of 8 Olympic gold medals in successive Olympics is an OE. The winner of the Nobel Prize for medicine a few years ago is an OE.

My son, a junior doctor who qualified nearly 3 years ago is in the front line of a massive NHS hospital saving lives and limbs exposing himself in these uncertain times is an OE! (As do many of his close relatives). And no, he's absolutely not interested in politics. So tell us please, what great humanitarian work do you and yours do for mankind?

For readers of this thread, nowhere did I say Eton is "better" than the other schools. Yes, the alumni it produces is out of this world and that's only my opinion and no one has to agree. I don't really give a monkey's who goes or don't go to Eton. Also, Eton does not need me or anybody else to promote the School. Even at >£42,000 p.a. basic fee, Eton is more than 4 times oversubscribed annually for as long as I can remember, both from home and abroad. Not being funny here, I've posted links at MN in the past to show there are people really to kill for a place there.

Can't blame you @wonder7. You are clearly not a sports person and therefore, you don't have a clue what I'm talking about. Those who know what it's all about are willing to pay over the odds like, e.g. more than a quarter-million £s to get into such school(s).

If it's only academics that you want, gee. . . you can get it for peanuts i.e. absolutely nothing, elsewhere in some state schools - there are at least 4 such schools in my backyard/front yard (two girls; one co-ed and one boys - all grammar, everyone of which can seriously embarrass the 3 schools mentioned on this thread) of which DS also got places at the time.

@peteneras

I have to say you are the number one poster who would put me off Eton (although I'm sure most parents are slightly more measured in their attititude to the school). You sound incredibly overly invested in the school and it's alumni.

It's incredibly unlikely that your son will ever be prime minister so the number of prime ministers is largely irrelevent to the decision making process of most parents. The current prime minister will be judged by his legacy - did he make the country a better place? Or appeal to the lowest common denominator to win short lived popularity ? Donald Trump has the support of the American people but he's certainly not the role model I'd choose for my son. Boris Johnson is not a man who is generally respected by anybody with anygenuine expertise. He is someone with the support of the red tops. Obviously many parents wouldn't wish their children to aspire to behave as he has done. Maybe you would and that is you're right. Either way it's completely irrelevent - every school will have some impressive alumni and some less so - the anecdotes aren't going to be what sways anyone. They're going to look at the ethos of the school as a whole and the statistics. How many go to Oxbridge in STEM, Arts etc. What impression do you get of the boys there - are they arrogant? Kind? socially aware?

Obviously no current parents are going to be swayed by your slightly strange list of anecdotes : "The soldier who defeated Napoleon Bonaparte at the Battle of Waterloo" .

Eton is no doubt the right school for some boys it's fairly over subscribed but not as competitive to get into as many grammar schools and certainly no where near the top London day schools which have more impressive recent alumni. Certainly Eton wouldn't be the school of choice for a very academic boy.

You do sound like you're insanely invested in the school and it's not really clear why.

"My son, a junior doctor who qualified nearly 3 years ago is in the front line of a massive NHS hospital saving lives and limbs exposing himself in these uncertain times is an OE! (As do many of his close relatives). And no, he's absolutely not interested in politics. So tell us please, what great humanitarian work do you and yours do for mankind?"
As admirable as it is that your DS does humanitarian work I don't think even peternas can state that Eton is the only school capable of producing humanitarians. I have done 35 years of "humanitarian work" I have met people from all backgrounds all schools all nationalities. No one school no back ground or nationality can claim the moral high ground when it comes to producing humanitarians. In fact I find that suggestion that any organisation or anyone can claim to produce more "humanitarians than anyone else is insulting to all of the rest of us. Today my colleagues and I stood ay 11 am and remembered 100 NHS staff who have sadly lost their loves to Covid19 what school the went to is totally irrelevant and I doubt if it had any bearing in the person they were. Its the NHS and everything it stands for, that made them into the people they were and meant that many went above and beyond knowing the risk they were taking and paid the ultimate price. Today is a desperately sad day that the NHS has lost 100 of its staff and it makes me so angry when I read comments like the above, it's got fuck all to do with what school you went too. It's the NHS that has made its staff what they are desire all its difficulties, that NHS provides the uniquely privileged role that the staff; caring for people at often the worst times in their lives reaching out a hand to a total stranger and saying let me help you, Ley me care about you, its what the NHS stands for is written through its staff like a piece of rock not what school you attended. Im sorry to rant but today is a sad day.