Independent school fees and Coronavirus

[Creamegg11]

Our prep school closed on Tuesday due to the Coronavirus situation and the school has given the children some work and also some online learning via an App to do at home.

A parent on WhatsApp mentioned whether parents will get some refund on school fees especially as we don’t know when the children will return. I suppose no one predicted this was going to happen and it’s not the school’s fault but it had me thinking.

@Alsoplayspiccolo I'm really sorry, I hope he can find something else soon.

Also wondering this

@Alsoplayspiccolo - very sorry to hear this - I hope something changes. We are in the same boat as we think we may be without an income throughout this - very worrying times ahead.

Not charging for lunch is ridiculous as they have not taken delivery of the food and it hasn’t been consumed - that is not even a token of goodwill.

Many independent schools do not ‘sail close to the wind’ - they are businesses before schools! They have a good handle on reserves - hence having the extra facilities and have access to funds to enable them to offer a broad curriculum. The figure being bandied around of 20% is on consumables and 80% on salaries is twaddle!

Class of 12 children at £4000 a term (which is not even the average these days) = £48,000 per term (4 months to reflect 3 terms)
1 teacher paid £14,000
1 support member paid £6000 (very generous)
Thats a total of £20,000
The remaining £28,000 is NOT all used on consumables etc - maybe £8000 a term (which I know it isn’t, but lets just say it is).
That leaves £20,000 PER CLASS
7 classes @ £20,000 reserve = £140,000 reserve PER TERM
£720,000 is then spare each year to cover mortgages, maintaining the grounds, lunch staff, playground assistants, visiting staff members, admin staff and Headteacher salaries.

These schools will not be folding for not taking 1 terms fees - that is a ludicrous statement and wholly erroneous.

@VivaLeBeaver. I have explained that a belligerent defence of a private school's inalienable right to demand fees, does not exist. Even force majeure terms cannot arbitrarily be implied. A school can say it will retain fees, but opens itself up to litigation. I am unsure, why you feel that schools should have a privilege over any other private business. Coronavirus has collapsed the economy to such an extent that no business is immune. However, the government has stepped in. Somehow it appears that you seem to think that private schools should be above all of this. We have to support and look after our children at home, directly now for the foreseeable future; that may well be until Christmas or longer, never mind September. If you want to be charitable, that is up to you, but you are quite wrong, legally, to assume that private schools can arbitrarily and unilaterally apply their own terms. Like most other contractual obligations that cannot possibly be met in full, they must offer to reimburse. @RedAndGreenPlaid, try not to worry too much. The insurers are not anybody's concern but the school's, to any outcome. It makes no difference to the eventual outcome. In any case, you are not responsible for the school surviving or not. As you quite rightly have intimated, you as parents, have the ultimate responsibility to your child, not the school. Whilst of course we want schools to be around after this global change event, we also want a lot of other things to be around too. Perhaps this will accelerate the government's previous idea of nationalising all schools, who knows. The fees you pay in advance are your fees until the service has been provided unless fair, equitable and agreeable alternative arrangements are made for the full education of your children.

The bottom fell out of our world this week financially. I have the money to pay the remaining summer term fees and our mortgage for 4 months. Then it’s gone. I’m currently not taking a full salary to ensure employees can stay employed (80% cut) and DH works in his family company - service related - and has taken a 40% cut.

So for this reason I feel sickened that I’ll be paying out for online lessons when we won’t survive much past the summer. But this is my bed and I shall lie in it as that is what I promised when I signed them up. I feel for my dc though as it will be all change. (Home and school)

You could berate me for not being more careful, for living beyond my means etc etc but my industry is hospitality and even though we saw this coming we didn’t have enough time to prepare as it was so rapid.

No expert, but does that make sense Soma where only a term’s notice is required?

@drillerboy. I’ve never said that I think private schools are above anything or that they can impose fees illegally when they’re not providing a service.

Simply pointing out that parents need to realise that stopping paying means the school folds and never reopens. If they realise that and are happy with that possible outcome then fine.

I don’t have kids at private school. If I did and my finances weren’t changed in the current situation then I’d carry on paying. Not only to hopefully ensure the school is still there next year but also to pay the staff.

My dog walker isn’t dog walking but I’m still paying her. I don’t have to. I choose to.

Can you please point out where I have said that schools can legally charge? “ but you are quite wrong, legally, to assume that private schools can arbitrarily and unilaterally apply their own terms.”

I never said any of the above and don’t think that they can apply their own terms at all.

If you want to see the breakdown if school's budgets, I recommend you look at their accounts (published by Companies House or the Charity Commission).

Not the kind of guesswork above which omits all sorts of things such as the full costs of staff, the need for support staff, compliance and insurance costs, premises, facilities, utilities, classroom and other supplies, cleaning etc.

If the school is providing online learning, then fees will not be cancelled. There might be an abatement depending on which overheads do not need to be paid whilst the site is closed.

Thus is unprecedented, and it might take a little while for implications to be worked through. The announcement of the 80% grant to avoid lay offs is likely to be significant for schools.

I really hope our two private schools offer some sort of rebate.

This isn't about us trying to be greedy or not want to support parents, but a gesture of good will on both sides would help enormously.

There are parents who are comfortably able and willing to let the schools have the full boarding school fees and not feel any effect, this is great. But private schools have attracted a lot of parents who can barely afford the fees and they have to realise this is also a significant part of their population. If they dont and they don't consider this, they will alienate parents like me.

We have had no communication yet and I have direct debits going out. I will feel immensely aggrieved if no effort is made to at least reimburse a proportion of the boarding fees.

I have 2 questions on this topic:

• don’t independent schools have business interruption insurance? If they are closer by the Government, surely, this should qualify them for insurance payouts?

-the Government announced yesterday that it will pay 80% wages to any employer who is affected by coronavirus, up to a cap limit, for at least 3 months. Surely, independent schools can claim that?

In addition, if my son is not in boarding, the school does not incur quite a few costs, and why should I pay for the service I am clearly not getting? As a minimum, I should not be paying by the boarding element?

I totally agree with the above!!! But what do we do?

We have already been informed that all fees will be due as normal...no discounts whatsoever. Also looking at threatened income security, so will be interested to see if the govt staff retention help will have any impact on school fees for next term

Our school’s bursar also sent an email yesterday saying the invoices are coming as normal - but it looked like this was to pre-empt invoices that indeed arrived in post yesterday. However this was before the Government announcement, and I suspect they need a few days to digest and discuss with school governors, before they can make decisions!

If the independent school do qualify for government support, I do not see how they can not pass it on to the parents?

@VivaLeBeaver. You may not specificy legality but your justification of the retention of paid school fees implies that there is some inherent right. The justification of you somehow being responsible for staff wages is ludicrous. Those workers are generally not self employed. So, in essence you would pay the running costs of any business that you had any interaction with? You must have more wealth than the UK as a whole. Of course you do not have children in private education. The fees are most needed by the parents at this time, not the school. There's not just a cost of education to consider; most parents will have to stay at home, even if they could work.

I agree, Drillerboy. What I think is that we need to give the schools a few days to digest announcements, assess their options, and then I personally will be querying their refund/discount plans. They should be able to claim both from the government support, and on insurance.

To all on here concerned. Without doubt, private school's will look at its business cost before that of the interests of parents finances. They will rely on contracts and could realistically use the Chancellor's measures to mitigate their positions almost fully. They will certainly make a big profit if they retained fees and utilised the facility to send staff home on 80% pay! The government will need to ensure that parents and indeed their children are truly protected. Legal contracts are only worth the paper they are written on; any unreasonable terms could be thrown out. To avoid mass class action, schools need to be equitable and put the interests of the families first, and not their own agenda.

And why can teachers not have 80% of their usual wage up to £36000? Most other private sector workers, who are self employed will get very little in comparison. The private schools are already well protected. It cannot be justified to protect their enormous profits.

Certainly if private school staff are included in the people who get 80% of their wage paid by the govt there isn't an issue on that front and schools certainly shouldn't be charging for the final term.

Our small independent is 'non-profit', there is no owner. The email we had states that any surplus, of which there isn't that much, is reinvested in the school.

I doubt they will qualify for the government 80%, as they are not out of work!
They are looking after the children of key workers, setting lessons online, organising book swaps, spelling tests and how to deliver online lessons for the foreseeable.

It is unlikely business interruption cover will respond, I am waiting to see the wording of the fee reimbursement but while the children are receiving an education, albeit remotely, I'm not sure there would be a refund.

So far, I only came across one independent school that volunteered to take on teaching children of key staff - and it is Eton college. Our school is trying to set up online facilities - but not for running lessons but for uploading tasks that will need to be completed and returned by email, so more life self-study and homework. So all support staff/facilities/catering will not be working, no sport activities will be happening and teaching will be much less hands-on.

I received next term’s invoice yesterday. I did expect to have to pay basic fees but was a bit shocked to see lunches and school bus on there.

I think now is the time to look at the contracts. We arent in the luxurious position to be able to act benevolently. I am wondering if our DC’s school is trying to get us to agree to a change of terms. Ie they announce the new status quo, then they send an invoice. We pay it and bingo we’ve accepted the new terms. Boris is telling everyone this is for 12 weeks and our school are still pretending they will review what will happen after Easter and let us know. I think they know already! The peak is expected around May/June so no return likely before end of summer term. I think we will be home educating for a year. Can you seriously see a return to school in September as winter approaches? If It happens it will likely be a temporary respite. The private schools will want to dangle hope to their customers and draw new ones in for a few weeks before they close again. The NHS cant cope with this. It will only happen if a miracle cure is found quickly. The Americans have said they are trialling an anti-malaria drug so you never know. We can hope!

But if teachers are still working in terms of providing online lessons / material etc..would the school still be eligible for this grant? No doubt there will be some parents that can continue to pay...but others that won’t..are there any caveats in terms of businesses only being eligible if income is below a certain level? So much seems so unclear..hopefully more will be revealed soon.