Latymer (grammar) or Highgate?

[Conundrum2020]

So, we will very soon have to make the decision between Latymer (the grammar school) and Highgate for DC. Highgate is closer and, of course, has much better premises (with those fees, they ought to have so that is normal). But I feel that Latymer is more diverse and, of course, it is free! I do understand that funding is an issue for all state schools, so we would have no problems contributing to the schools (it would be nothing like paying for an indie in any case).

We are not wealthy but have the money sorted for going to Highgate the next 7 years. But the money saved by going to Latymer could pay for an awful lot of "extras" (including a deposit for a flat for DC when that time comes).

What would you do? The naicer indie or the excellent grammar?

Given it will cost you well over £150k to send your child to Highgate for seven years while Latymer is free, (and the end result likely to be similar), I think you'd been mad to choose Highgate. Your child may miss out on top notch facilities and some of the extra-curricular offerings that Highgate can offer (Latymer is no doubt as short of cash as any state school), but what they lose on that side, they might gain in social awareness, the knowledge that the world is made of many types of people, not just wealthy, privileged ones.

Everyone I speak to whose kids are at Latymer loves the school. And as far as I'm aware they offer a lot in extra-curricular activities as well, especially if your child is in any way interested in music

Why don’t you use your local comp? Not being snarky, genuinely interested. I think a commute to school everyday is something I wouldn’t want for my children. My neighbour’s child is at Latymer and I’ve taught children who went there, all very happy, but they wouldn’t have had the money for private.

Preview Your comment is truly reflecting my view until we had the Highgate offer. The commute (not the location) is the main issue against Latymer, I guess.

Rocket The local comp is DC's fourth choice in the mix of schools we've been looking at. We all like the local comp but had a better feel with the other schools. It wouldn't be the end of the world if DC went there but, as said, it is not our first choice. It just didn't feel right and DC would benefit from a new larger friends group (of course I don't know what the future holds so it's only speculation). In the end, it is not DC's first choice and I (and his father) doesn't believe it is the school with the best fit for DC. We believe DC would happier at Latymer or Highgate for various reasons.

Once again, thank you all for your contribution.

How bad is the commute? I guess if the commute is a killer and you have Highgate at your doorstep, it would be an important factor. Which school does your child prefer? Maybe leave the choice to them?

XelaM The choice was always Latymer for DC until the Highgate offer arrived. Now it is "I don't know", hence this confusion. DC only saw schools we didn't mind - at the end it is DC spending the next 7 years there, not me/us.

The commute is 2 buses to Latymer or a healthy walk to Highgate. Big difference. On the other hand, the commute was never a deterrent in itself (but as a factor to consider) and many local children would travel the same way.

I don't know if it's a factor, but Highgate's Oxbridge entries aren't that high given the fees. However, of course your child will have a superb, beautiful school environment with fantastic opportunities. If money was no option, I would probably choose Highgate, but given that school fees are an important consideration for you - I don't think the value added by Highgate over Latymer is worth the extra £150K or so.

XelaM Oxbridge per se is not key - then we would have tried with other schools or been more tactical about the school choice. Money wise, it is more that I want value for money so I guess that is the question regarding HG really.

I think that this thread has made things a bit clearer to me.

OP - the people I know choosing "selective" independents over superselective grammars all earn 500k plus. Some earn over 1 million (law firm partners or top notch bankers/fund managers) so the fees really do not impact their day to day lives. They can still have nice cars/houses/holidays. If you are in a high income bracket and walking distance to Highgate, that is what I would go for. If however it is in any way going to be a struggle fees wise, I would go for Latymer. I do not believe any independent gives true value for money over an excellent grammar as you can buy in outside activities for much cheaper, but if the fees are not a big deal for you, then it is worth the money - plus there is the argument that the grammar place should go to someone who can afford it. It will be an easier ride for you and your child to be local and have lots of activities included, if you can easily afford it.

Themyths We could earn £10M a year and I would still want value for money and most people that I know that makes that money you mention or above, think that way too. You don't stay "well-off" by spending all the money you earn...

Anyway, I actually don't agree with the idea that someone that can pay for education should give up their state place to others just like that (because fundamentally I would prefer a system without a dual system for public services but I can't see that working in the UK for various reasons) - but that is a totally different discussion.

I think one issue is that I/we have - unwillingly - got drawn into the "secondary school stress" that exists here in the UK

I think it will have to come down to DC's choice in the end...

I went to latymer (be it quite a few years ago) but Edmonton has always been pretty awful. I walked from Winchmore hill and as a kid in school uniform my main worry was kids from other schools and a bit of gentle taunting about being "boffins". Noone ever spent time off the grounds (accept in the cafe opposite in 6th form). I now work in highgate and agree that it's a very different area. But as you say, that's London.

I have no idea what Latymer (x2 changes in head teacher since my day) is like now but I loved my time there. It was academic but sport, culture and music were also valued highly. I made life long friends and I couldn't have been happier. Cwm Penmachno holds particularly fond memories.

As an aside, in my day it was a very politically left leaning school, think a communist coup when labour won the school election. Most of the ex latymerians I'm still friends with are public sector workers and are very liberal.

My DH always laughs that I went to private school because my school life sounds so unlike his experience. I disagree with him, it was very mixed in my day, I fear it's less mixed now (socioeconomically). I joined from a state primary and untutored, which was normal. Anyway, I digress.

I have no experience of highgate school so can't provide a comparison but can endorse Latymer as an educational experience.

It's a very good point that it'll come down to your DCs choice. And it's a lovely choice to have.

Awww @redinthefacegirl - you've made me all nostalgic for my schooldays! Loved that place so much, and your description of the Latymer I knew in the 90s is spot-on. Never been back though, so can't comment on what it's like today.
"Sing it Latymer, Loud and Long"
[that's a line from the school song for anyone who is wondering!]

Great to hear your personal experiences, redinthefacegirl and NorthLondonNora. I would expect Latymer nowadays to be left/liberal as the area that we live in is that, ie that is how their parents vote and hence how their DCs are being brought up.

(As a matter of fact, one indie school that we looked at, I immediately wrote off walking around the premises seeing the result from their latest "general election" in school - majority Tories (not surprised but I can accept that) but 30% UKIP 😳. I couldn't let DC going to a school where such values flourish...)

(To clarify, this was when the Tory party still had moderate/centrist conservatives in the party)

Interesting thread OP! Watching with interest as i am a couple of years behind you but wondering whether to encourage my daughter to apply for Latymer/Henrietta Barnett or whether the commute would be too much even if she got in. I think we must live nearby but i can't afford Highgate and have slightly different "local comp" options.

In the first instance, OP, after now having read the whole thread, notwithstanding the crime rate at Edmonton and the commute there; nor the £180k spent at Highgate, I would like to know what's the ideal situation you'd like to see happening for your son (say) in 20 years from now?

peteneras In a broader sense, I wish DC to live a happy life, hopefully being in a chosen career (ie not "forced"). Therefore, I wish for a school that enables DC to explore various interests (currently known ask unknown) and meet different people in a pleasant environment. As a family, we will of course continue to do what we can with travels, culture etc...

This might sound very wishy washy but after all, it is not about me or my husband but about DC. I just want us to open as many doors as possible but DC has to decide what doors to enter.

(With happy that does mean a career where DC won't have to struggle financially but no need to make millions if that makes sense)

I do realise that was quite an unfair question I asked of you, and I apologise. But you're in a very fortunate situation to be able to choose between two very good schools. I was also very lucky to be in the same situation some 15~20 years back. Both my DD and my son (2.5 years younger) got places at the same Latymer school during their secondary transfer but I rejected the school in both cases because Latymer wasn't our first choice. For a start, I'm a firm believer in single sex schools and Latymer was an option only for insurance purposes albeit a very good school.

DD eventually got her first choice all-girls super-selective grammar school and we were over the moon. DS followed suit with a scholarship to a world renowned private school and we were over two moons, giving up the Latymer and QEB in the process.

All this came about AFTER their older cousins (my niece and nephew) had successfully graduated from the Latymer. The girl was a Head Girl at the Latymer and she's today a GP. Her younger brother is now my dentist! That's how I know Latymer is a fantastic school producing kids that go on to having great careers and earning good money.

The above are two examples that can save you up to quarter of million £s if you go Latymer and still see your dreams come true.

peteneras I don't mind your question at all - it made me think about it from a different angle. We all would like co-ed for DC and hence Latymer is the one grammar option for us.

I really appreciate all input as it makes me think (maybe overthink in some cases) and see it from different angles. 🙏

For a long time I couldn't reconcile in my head why would anyone wants to pay up to >£250k going private while a state school product can equally achieve the same career? I only came to see and understand part of the answer to this great mystery during my own son's medicine graduation in 2017.

Education isn't only about getting a good degree followed by a good job ultimately. Unbeknown to him, I was watching DS at a distance going about his business on convocation day and anyway he went, there seemed to be a small crowd - all fellow new medics - following him. DS would soon be surrounded by his peers, all listening to him intently and occasionally all burst out laughing spontaneously. It was quite apparent to me that DS was seen as the natural leader amongst the group and I remember thinking, wow, this is what private education is all about; leadership and confidence! Not forgetting those being "led" are not exactly fools and idiots either - they're all doctors!

But I've to say not all private schools produce the same confident leaders like the big named ones. IMO, Highgate isn't among the premier league division and most certainly the premier league contenders don't regard Highgate as a rival. It's therefore, up to you to decide whether you'd want to spend tens of thousands of £s going to a "2nd or 3rd " rate private school as opposed to a "1st" rate free state school.

@peteneras Putting aside the famous boarding schools, what London day schools are so mich better than Highgate that it’s a second or third rate school in your view? And how many of them are co-ed?

@XelaM London day schools in the so called premier league are Westminster, St Paul's Boys and Girls; NLCS and Kings College. Although single sex, Westminster 6th form is co-Ed and wouldn't be surprised if St. Paul's goes co-Ed in sixth form in the not too distance future especially given the recent appointment of the new Master at St Paul's Boys.

I have to admit that something that amazes me with the English (don't know about the rest of Britain), is the crazy belief in league tables and "averages", ie just because X% goes to Oxbridge doesn't mean that "your" child will end up there.

My personal belief is that you perform better where you are happy. I know too many children who have gone to the above mentioned schools, pushed themselves very hard, and not even got an interview at Oxbridge, making themselves and their parents extremely disappointed. What's that good for?

Also we're entering Yr 7and therefore not interested in a school that's only co-ed from sixth form (by that stage DC might change school anyway as the system is).

Lastly, the over belief in Oxbridge also fascinates me. For some subjects, other unis are actually better.

@Conundrum2020 I agree. I'm also a firm believer in co-ed education and sixth form is a long way away! Also what good are premier league schools in West London when you live in North London? A happy child will do well anywhere - an unhappy one can be in the best school in the world and crumble under all the pressure of expectations.

And my brother did Computer Science at Cambridge and although it's obviously a great uni - there is nothing extraordinary about the teaching there and his friends although smart and very nice were just absolutely normal.