Whitgift, Trinity or Emanuel?

[IvyLynn]

I would love some help with deciding between these schools as we are in the very fortunate position of being offered 11+ spaces at each for DS. I think all three schools are absolutely brilliant in their own right but am trying to figure out which school DS would have a happier time at.

We need to figure out the mixed V single sex question ourselves. Emanuel would be the much more sensible choice in terms of logistics/journey as we live nearby. So I need to figure out if I think he would have a happier time/different/better experiences at Trinity or Whitgift to make the 50min journey worthwhile.

DS is very keen on Whitgift from the 'feeling" he got at the open day but I think he has made this decision from quite random 10 year old boy observations (think food & wallabies). He is insisting that the journey will be worth it for him for the facilities/extras. He is not particularly good at sport but enjoys having a go at a wide variety and we are hoping he will find 'his thing' or at least have a lot of fun being active and trying different things. He has quite a spikey profile. He can seem reasonably bright in certain subjects/ways and then the complete opposite in others and more confusingly it can flip. Not terribly mature or self driven yet (except on occasion he takes us by surprise). He really knows his own mind, can be very strong willed and stubborn but so far has been utterly opposed to any revision for exams. He can be lazy, easily distracted or fixated if he is interested in something. He's not an alpha, nor a follower, not in the popular set at school but always had a solid group of friends, not particularly musical, loves science, likes maths, great reader and even though normally his maths result has been stronger in the past the school have always said he had a talent for Eng (which apparently came through in 11+ to my surprise).

The biggest question I would love to have answered is in regards to Trinity V Whitgift - I keep hearing that they suit very different boys and that the ethos is quite different. I don't seemed to have grasped this. During the process I really didn't think we would be in this position. DS was very reluctant (understatement) to revise/practice and therefore I didn't want any of us to become too attached to a particular school. Also within the process I unfortunately only got to have a flying visit to Trinity and had a much more indepth tour of the other schools.

How would you describe the different ethos of Trinity V Whitgift? Is there a particular type of boy who you think would not be happy at either school.

I'm keen to make a decision quickly to release places for those who are on the waiting list as I have been on the other side of this situation before (and did get a waitlist place which which has turned out to be a happy and excellent experience for DD).

I’m sure if you wanted to go and have a tour in the week after half term they’d gladly show you round. Our DS’s sound very similar :) and my gut said Whitgift for us, but it’s a personal decision only you can make really. From what I’ve seen there isn’t loads between them but trinity is much more musical. Boys at both seem really lovely - and I’ve done the train journey from clapham with them a good few times and they are so well behaved even then!

Thanks so much Untamed. Has your DS started already or did he do this years 11+? If you've made the decision already for this year, am impressed and pleased for you. If he's at the school already, would love to hear how he is getting on and what he particularly likes/anything he doesn't.

I think we will definitely do the tour even if we've decided as I know he'll be desperate to have another look round with a more relaxed head and to have somethings to look forward to for Sep.

Unfortunately we are not walking distance from CJ. So it will be the bus for the first few years and then I suspect a lot of picking up/dropping off from the station going forward (even though there is a bus) but it would be worth it for the right school/a happy boy.

We just did the 11+ yes so sorry can’t give you some actual school experience yet! We just felt immediately that it was the right school for him and I’m a big believer in gut instinct. Then I’d course we’ve pored over results and so on but it’s just confirmed our preference really. Good luck with the decision!

Gosh well done you and best of luck to your DS for senior school. I know what you mean about instinct - it's probably all we can do at this point as they are all great schools.

Ds in U6 at T. There are all types of boys there, some more interested/talented in certain areas than others, but all are valued and encouraged to try everything. My DS wasn't sporty at all, but ended up playing several rugby matches for the D team in the early years. He wasn't particularly musical, but a talent for singing was spotted early on and encouraged, which has led to him having some amazing experiences over the years. I think the non- alpha types fit in very well at T, as do the more quirky boys.
The ethos is one of mutual respect, and politeness. Boys treat all members of the school community in the same way, and are expected to be representives of the school when out and about.

I would definitely contact both schools to have another look around before deciding. I know T definitely offer this.

DS now in Y7 at Whitgift and loving it. Like previous poster knew it was the school for him. Yes, it accommodates for sporty types but also non sporty. The school regard keeping fit as a way of life and that’s no bad thing. Loads of activities so your son will find something he likes. My son likes maths and also attends debating club. They also get almost two hours for lunch so they can try out clubs at lunchtimes. Boys come from a wide range of backgrounds and just get on with it. As far as I can tell no cares if you’re Einstein or the quietest boy in the school - they’ll talk to you on a level regardless! If you’re good at something it’s celebrated but they also really help each other. Tbh they are really proud of their school and just act like your typical 11 year old. I don’t think they really appreciate yet how lucky they are to be there. Yes food is good and there are animals, but for me it’s the feeling that the school want all the boys to do well, and it’s not just about the academics. Visit the schools, see how you and most importantly how your son feels too. As he will have to go there. Well done to him and your family to have achieved this. Can’t speak on Trinity but from reading posts it’s equally a good school. My son has a friend at Emanuel who loves it too.

Seeline Thanks so much for your description of Trinity. Its lovely to hear that they found your DS's talent for singing and about their ethos of mutual respect and kindness. Also that they encouraged him with rugby. It really is beginning to seem like there is no wrong answer and that you have to take a 'leap' based on instinct. Its great to hear that your DS has had a happy time. Do they play hockey at Trinity?

Enpot2007 I think seeing keeping fit as a way of life is really important. I am in no way incredibly fit or hugely disciplined but really want school to encourage DS to find the pleasure in other activities other than sitting on front of a screen and thing some form of physical activity is so important for teenage mental health.

I know DS would love debating club. He is having his first experience of debating at school at the moment - he has certainly had enough practice at home! I think your comment about the school wanting all the boys to do well and that its not just about academics is really lovely and exactly what you would want from a school.

My DS is in yr 8 at W and his older brother went there too. I always knew that was the school suited them . Both boys were very different with my eldest being very sporty and a bit of a jock whereas my younger son was quiet and reserved although played a broader range of sports than his big brother who stuck with rugby. We have had some personal issues at home and W have been fantastic , my DS has weekly counselling and I have a call from his form tutor every week. I know exactly how he is getting on. I am just so happy that my quiet boy stood on stage at the recent class performance and had a speaking part of the tempest. So for me it's been brill and has provided my DS with the confidence he lacked on arrival. I don't have experience of T or Emanuel

Champagne Its brilliant to hear from someone with two very different DC at the same school and to hear how it has met both their individual needs so well. I hope things are improving for you at home now and its absolutely brilliant to hear how the school and your DS's tutor are supporting him. Thats something which cannot be underestimated as so many DC need support at some point during their time at senior school.

IvyLynn I have had a very positive experience. My DS in yr 8 got a letter in the post last week and an amazon gift card for helping with the interviews and representing the school so well. My eldest didn't volunteer for anything! I aim to send my youngest DS too when the time comes

They are all good schools
How long would the Emanuel commute take?
50 minutes to T or W is not to be underestimated and the faff of getting there for sports fixtures/parents evening/events should be considered too

AveEldon I agree with you that they are all good schools. Emanuel is a much easier journey, around 30-40mins door to door and in the car for early/late lifts it's only 20-25mins. We love the school, the head and how relaxed and happy the children are there. It's easy to meet your friends locally. In fact all the way through the process it was our first choice due to the fact that it was our local school.

However, then DS really fell for Whitgift. I can see why. It has a lot to offer. I think Mr Beck is a very talented sales man though and am trying to remember to look past that. I think I need to include DS in this process and carefully point out the pros and cons for him. He has worked hard, if not exactly willingly and he is a boy who knows his own mind. I think the ravage of extra curricular activities at Whitgift (due to the extra space being further out) really appeals. He also has a dream of being able to board/flexi board which is not an option for our family due to financial limitations so I need to mange that carefully. I don't relish the thoughts of an 1.5-2hr round trip in the car for me when he needs late pickups (in bad traffic - its 40-45mins off peak).

I think if we are willing to consider commuting to Croydon then we need to give equal consideration to Trinity which DS also loved probably due to similar reason of space/facilities and consider best fit for him.

Are people of the view that most boys will be happy in either school as they cater for a whole range of personalities?

Have you tried the actual public transport commute he would have to do on a regular morning getting there for 8am? With DS plus bags etc? Might be worth taking a few mornings off the week after half term to get him to appreciate the realities of the journey! Or would moving closer be an option if he really loves the Croydon schools?

I'm not sure if you would need to do late pick ups in the car for Whitgift as the school bus leaves at 5.15pm allowing the boys to complete any after school activities

IvyLynn where do you live ? All boys that visit tend to love Whitgift! As another poster said, it's not just getting to school, it's the parents' evenings, after school events, sports etc. I said no to my DS (despite all his friends raving about Whitgift after visits) as with all the brilliant schools in the area, I don't think it's worth it. Unless you would consider moving? A lot of them realise this and go for a school closer to where they live in the end, although a few don't. Emanuel is a fantastic school. I have a friend with 2 DC there and they couldn't be happier. Kids love to meet up with each other at weekends, so please do think about that too.

Every time the title of this thread comes up on Active Conversations, I think for a moment that it’s in ‘Baby Names’ and think ‘Seriously? Baby Whitgift?’

@NineSwans 😂😂

T school buses also leave after activities finish at 5.30. If the boys don't have an activity they can do homework (supervised) until the buses leave.

How much does your son respond to stretch / pressure? At Trinity I feel there is a constant drive for improvement : if you get an A- there will always be comments about how to get a higher A grade. Nearly all boys excel at something . My son is “ clever” quick to catch on; works hard ; academic scholarship etc but I wouldn’t say he finds it easy. The work is challenging and much at year 8 seems to be aimed at getting them ready for gcse. Lots of v challenging humanities work in particular.
Whitgift is generally easier to get into - many boys get into Whitgift but not Trinity - presumably because of smaller intake and harder exam. I personally haven’t heard of a boy getting Trinity but not Whitgift based on exam. But Whitgift get good results so I suspect the ethos is still about hard work.

My impression of Emanuel from friends is less pressured; work seems a little easier at this stage. They are definitely less competitive at sport but easier to get into teams because co-Ed so that may work in your favour .

At Trinity certainly the feeling is that Trinity is less formal than Whitgift and possibly less alpha.

chalky he would get the school bus for the first couple of years which is about a 10 min walk from home and then 45-50 mins on the bus). Bus + train also an option which would probably take 50 mins including walk at either end but this could be improved with lifts! Moving definitely not an option. We are tied to here for various reasons.

AveEldon that's good news that they are normally finished on time for the bus. I could handle the journey for matches/parents evening.

Allyoudo that's a good point about their social life and one that has been very much on my mind as I see his older sister really enjoying the independence of meeting up with friends locally and I pick her up quite a bit also. My head says Emanuel. However, I had a commute of 45-60min to senior school to go to a school not dissimilar to Whitgift. I absolutely adored it and never ever resented the journey for the benefits it brought. I am only now realising the effort it took on my parents behalf as there were a lot of lifts! They were amazing. They never once seemed fed up with late night journeys.

Also to be considered, I drop off/pick up DD at 7-7.30pm several evenings a week from clubs outside school. I would expect DS to do all his activities at school.

Has your DS started his senior school yet or was he this years 11+ What school did you decide on?

Nineswans that has made me laugh out loud. I can see why, if you didn't know the schools, your brain would go there.

There are lots of other evening events that parents need to get to / get back from. Not everyone wants to get a school bus. Public transport is good, but can still be a long journey depending on where you live. I've got two DC at schools where it is one public bus journey, max 30mins d2d (and also train and tube options if the buses are delayed and not working). I can easily get to concerts, talks etc from work after school by public transport. Everyday I think how life enhancing the easy journey is for all of the family.

Wobbles that is hugely helpful. Thank you so much. I'm not sure that he would cope well with that level of pressure actually. In a couple of years maybe, but not now. I think he might just shut down, struggle with confidence so that's a really good point to consider.

Your point about sport at Emanuel is also a good one. I have mentioned it to DS already that the smaller number of boys may mean you have a better chance of getting on a team. But I think we need to discuss it again. It would be a shame to have the commute and not to be able to benefit from the extras. Although Whitgift I believe have a much wider variety of sport available due to the space although again I do have a worry that it will be the preserve of the boys who are very good!

Whitgift is a super sporty school with sone excellent sportsmen. Definitely something to check out.

One last thing about the importance of the school journey - from another thread on girls sw indep:

I'd echo what others have said about GO LOCAL!

We had the option of JAGS (lovely school) for DD but it would have involved the dreaded Thameslink. Brilliant when it works but when it doesn't it's a nightmare journey for us.

Much better to go for a local bus and/or walk. Think carefully about relying on school buses as well, expensive and quite restricting.

That's my two pence worth done on this. It's a very important factor, and one parents don't fully understand the extent of until it's too late. Best of luck OP on your decision!

I have to say I don't agree with wobble about pressure at T. Yes, every boy is encouraged to be the best that he can be, but in all areas. Such academic pressure to constantly push for a higher grade is not something that we have experienced at all. Staff are very supportive, and willing to offer help to individuals when requested. The school is very aware of the need for pastoral care, mental health issues etc. There is emphasis on the whole person, and producing well-rounded individuals.

There are some very bright boys, and some very conscientious boys, who I can imagine put a lot of pressure on themselves, but it's not something we have experienced.

It's a tough decision. My DS gets two trains to W and gets home at 5 apart from when he has training. In terms of sport I agree with others that in W the A teams are usually filled with scholars or those in academies. Although my eldest had never played rugby and ended up in the A team and stayed there. So they pick out natural talent too. My youngest played club rugby, school football and club cricket and isn't in any of the top teams. However he doesn't mind as the teams are A-E and there is opportunities to move up. Anyway we will all have positive stories about each of the schools and it might be worth you going back round for a look, trying the journeys to the school using public transport and see how you get on.