Any 11+ SWLon success from kids who aren’t tutored?

[ZebrABC]

I’m only hearing of success from state primary or prep sch for kids who’ve been tutored this year. Including those in state in catch-up classes getting further than naturally bright top of class who haven’t had tutor help. And one not tutored private top of class not getting through to interview stage. Is bright state-ed DC better off in state secondary or should I tutor for 11+? Are all private school kids now tutored in SWLon?

Agree with Jojo that it’s not so much that parents have single sex schools specifically in mind, more that the top performing schools tend to be single sex in your area ZebrA. Schools such as LEH, WHS, PHS, GHS, G&L, SPGS achieve well over 90% 9-7 grades at GCSE every year. The boys schools such as Hampton, KCS or SPS are the same. This is why people put DC through the hoopla of 11 plus. To put the difference bluntly, even an outstanding state school would be achieving 30% 9-7. I think the national average is below 20%.

The academic co- ed option in your area would be KGS. Or LU if that’s not too far.

But other, less competitive schools such as St Catherine’s still have a much higher “value added” so this is why they appeal. They get in the region 50-60% 9-7 grades and some obviously think this is worth paying for. Plus much smaller class sizes.

Tiffin Girls and Boys have thousands applying and the tutoring for those schools is a whole other business altogether.

Of course, children can and do vey well at any school but, because you are asking, this is just a perspective on why people put themselves through the 11 plus madness.

Thx though we wouldn’t chose single sex. You are right children can do well at any school. Some local state schools have more DCs getting better grades (and then top universities) anyway.

And I understand why people want a full class of bright children for their DCs, not mixed abilities and I do respect that too. “Hoopla” is a good word to describe if we wish to play the game or be thankful for not where we are.

Just to give a slightly different perspective on SW London preparation for 11+ independent school entry - I think it depends a lot on the primary school (whether prep or state and, more importantly, exactly which school) as to whether most parents tutor or not. Some schools have more chilled parents and other schools tend to have parents whipping each other into a school-gate frenzy in my experience. My DC both went to a prep school to age 11 and were never tutored by anyone other than me helping them. They are both at an excellent school which suits them both (for different reasons as they are both very different kids). Most of the kids at the school were, however, tutored and I know (because I was told more than once) that no one believed me that my kids weren’t! I genuinely did rely on the school to get them to the right academic position - I just helped with exam technique and confidence (crucial, in my view) in the months before the exams. If your DC is at a state school and you want them to go to a London indie at 11+, I think a tutor would be invaluable for exam technique, advice on the right schools for that particular child and access to the most helpful past papers for that child.

I would say >80% of private school pupils are being tutored and a similar number at state schools. People will claim not to tutor but may DIY so feel that doesn't count.

Those who say they didn't tutor and their kids got in fine - SW London has changed in the last 5 years. The number of Y6 kids is higher and the number of private school places available has not risen to keep pace

Thx everyone. We do home prep it just seems in 2020 it is only tutored kids succeeding. It’s an observation not a criticism that the brightest of children are going to state in my DC’s school unless tutored.

ZebrA - also, just in case you didn’t know, there are a group of about 12 girls schools called the London Girls Consortium who have grouped together to select pupils based on one single entrance exam, which can then be used to apply at any one of their schools (obviously some schools requiring higher marks than others).

In the last two years, they have tried to respond to what they see as the unnecessary stress and tutoring debacle in London and the need for primary school children to be doing endless exam prep, by changing their exam to a format designed to level the playing field by being “tutor proof”. It’s basically a version of a CAT test and the whole point of this kind of test is to measure innate ability, not learned ability. It’s mainly in a multi choice format. DD did this last year and said it was like nothing else she’d seen in her life (and she was at a prep). It’s nothing like the kind of VR or NVR in Bond books for instance, nor was it like BOFA. She ended up at G&L via this exam. Girls come there from all over the place as it’s do near Hammersmith tube and so far, it seems a lovely, unpretentious environment. Not pressurised at all.

So the entrance exams for some schools are far more “tutorable” than others. For instance, if the DC in your child’s class have sat KGS for instance, you can do a lot of practise for that style of exam as technique would matter, as well as ability. Even the brightest child would be at a disadvantage if they had never practised writing an effective short story in 20 mins, for instance.

Thx, that is news to me. Does teaching and marking in Yr7 at KGS therefore reflect their style of learning? ie technique rather than innate?

No, these schools are all pretty much the same once they get in - ie normal schools! They all do the same GCSEs at the end of the day! The only difference is that nearly everyone will be on track for 7/8/9 grades, so they can adapt the curriculum pace to this cohort. For instance, my DS felt extremely average at one of these schools, but still came out with all 9 grades. He was in one of the bottom of ten maths sets, but still got a 9 because most in the school did. I credit his friends with his results . DS put in the extra effort because he was comparing himself to his friends who were very able. He definitely wouldn’t have otherwise. In another school he might well have been a lot more complacent. But they all got 9s and felt slightly above average, rather than outstanding. At least they won’t be phased when applying for competitive uni courses of jobs etc so in this sense it’s a reality check and it stands them in good stead for life.

Well done to your DS and very encouraging to hear a place of no arrogance or complacency and good preparation for university.

Has anyone yet heard of a 11+ success to a SWLon co-educational (and single sex too just of interest) school in 2020 that has not been tutored?

Two children from a state school background at primary, both now in selective independent schools (and tutored for 2 years). I don’t know of a single child who did the 11+ who wasn’t tutored. Why you would enter the “arms race” unarmed, I don’t know. Sad but true. Actually with two pretty capable kids I welcomed the tutoring. It challenged them where the state primary school didn’t and has prepared them better for life at a selective school.

Not all results for 11+ 2020 are out yet OP. Being invited to interviews are no guarantee of an offer! It does indicate that your child has passed the exam but there is still a long way to go to secure a place this year. You might have more honest replies to your question towards the end of February.

FWIW I have a child at a selective co-Ed indie in SWLondon who was not tutored but did attend a prep school. The idea of extra tutoring on top of the already rigorous preparation that goes on in some of these prep schools scares me! I don’t believe in tutoring but sadly lots do and it does make it much more difficult for those who choose not to. Of course it’s a different story if your child attends a state primary as they may need guidance on how to pass the papers/timing/curriculum covered by Jan etc.

scholarships. Do schools ever have separate for state and not tutored? Also when clever DCs are offered many scholarships but can only take one place do others DCs get scholarship offers (waiting list for scholars)?

It was helpful to read your insights above. I was looking this up as now schools are closed and we're only being set homework.

Our school let us know that Atom Learning are also hosting free online lessons for absolutely anyone in English, maths and reasoning 8-12 years old. we did it on the weekend and was really great! we signed up on their website .

Hope this helps