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Original poster

Do Russell Group Unis not count GCSE Maths if taken early?

53 replies

basilbrush · 29/12/2019 11:41

Does anyone have experience of their DC successfully getting a place at a good uni when they took their GCSE Maths early?

DS school (state) would like to put him in for GCSE Maths and Numeracy this summer at end of Year 9. They moved him up to take classes with the Year 11s in Sept and he got 9 / A* in the mocks before Christmas.

Plan was for him then to do AS in Year 10. We were reluctant at first but then saw how much happier he was with the harder work.

However, recently lots of people have been telling us we could seriously jepordise his future as top unis discount any GCSEs taken early. And as this is Maths he won't have a core subject needed to apply.

The school are not sure themselves and don't have much experience in this sort of thing.

Can anyone advise?

Many thanks!

OP posts:
TheFrendo · 29/12/2019 13:05

I think that the timing of A levels is a bigger issue. AIUI, universities only consider A levels taken at the same time. If your son does maths A level early, the result may not count in university applications.

I think it may be in your son's interest to study more advanced maths but not to take the exams until the 'correct' time.

Primrosepenny · 29/12/2019 13:06

All unis are desperate for students so I don’t imagine it would negatively impact his chances

StanleyWalkersThirdWife · 29/12/2019 13:09

I think you'd be best ringing a couple of uni admissions teams to check.

Although if he's only in year 9 now then they may change the rules by the time he goes to apply as hes so many years away from it.

StanleyWalkersThirdWife · 29/12/2019 13:10

(If you do ring a uni admissions team I probably wouldn't say he's only in year 9 - I'd maybe make out that hes about to apply but took his gcse maths "3 years ago" and see what they say)

SproutinducingFarti · 29/12/2019 13:14

But if he does further maths in year 11 then that will count even if they don't like the early maths.

Piggywaspushed · 29/12/2019 13:16

My understanding is that this rule affects those who do multiple resits of subjects not people who do early entry.

FWIW, a boy form my school ahs just gained entry to Cambridge having done GCSE in year 9 AS in year 10, maths A Level in year 12 and FM A Level in year 13.

Boyskeepswinging · 29/12/2019 13:16

Blimey, bit of a generalisation there, Primrosepenny. Quite a few are still beating them off with a big stick! Also, by the time OP's DS is applying to uni we'll be well and truly out of the demographic downturn so places will be more competitive again.

But yes, as PP said, most uni's do prefer exams to be taken in one sitting. It can actively work against you if you don't take your A levels in one sitting.

titchy · 29/12/2019 13:20

If he's planning a maths degree don't do it. Stretch sideways not lengthways. Olympiad etc. There are far better ways of stretching an able mathematician than restricting them to GCSE and A level syllabuses. Think ahead. If he's done A levels by year 11 what does he do for years 12 and 13. Uni maths depts would be concerned with no maths for two years.

If he has no intention of doing maths at uni then it'll be fine. But he's year 9 so not likely he really knows what he wants to do.

Piggywaspushed · 29/12/2019 13:24

I would point out that the boy from my school gained his Cambridge place to do maths. Anyone who can get a 9 in GCSE at aged 13 is super talented and will always have an unusual profile. Rules are made to be bent for children such as this. I am assuming he is state educated, too?

Original poster
basilbrush · 29/12/2019 13:36

Thanks for input. Yes, he's at a state school. He's not sure if he wants to do a pure Maths degree yet but he definitely wants to do something where Maths A Level will be a requirement (Physics, Engineering, Comp Sci etc). Very hard to know what to do for the best - the school doesn't have brilliant resources or lots of staff so only way they can stretch him is by putting him with an older class. We need to make a decision by end of Jan whether to put him in to sit exams this summer. Tricky decision - am sure he'll get into Uni somewhere but don't want to narrow his chances!

OP posts:
Berthatydfil · 29/12/2019 13:37

When I took dc to Cardiff med school they said they took the best (6?) GCSEs first attempts only and ignored a levels taken before year 12.
This was a few years ago and med schools are slightly different.
So if he’s guaranteed A*\9 (has he covered enough of the syllabus to achieve the highest tier marks ??) then it may be worth considering, otherwise I would be wary. I would also check with a few unis to see how they would view it now and the as level .
Maybe do all the work and lessons but sit the exams in year 12?

Boyskeepswinging · 29/12/2019 13:38

Piggy as PP have said we have no idea what subject the boy wants to study at which university. Accordingly we are trying to give generic advice. Cambridge has its own entrance exam and interview for Maths, at that level of mathematical ability it's taken as a given that everyone has A stars. And no, some universities will not break rules.

NewYearSoon · 29/12/2019 14:02

This is Cambridge’s view on exams taken early - click on “Questions on exam results....”

and here is some guidance for Oxford - click on “A levels.”

Piggywaspushed · 29/12/2019 15:00

I am aware of that boys. I am just citing a case where it had no averse effect on the child (quite the opposite in fact). The links provided by newyear are really useful but nothing can replace the advice upthread to phone a few admissions offices : which , to be fair the school could also do to share the workload.

I think Oxbridge are , in particular, wary of tiger parents entering DCs at very young ages for exams which they then get , at best, mediocre results in. This affects maths more than any other subject. And they are right to push back against this (and multiple resits).

Hoghgyni · 29/12/2019 15:40

The current advice from Cambridge on A level maths is that you should not have a gap, so if you take A level maths in year 12, you should take FM in year 13 and start a maths degree straight afterwards. I would question what the school intends to do with him after taking the GCSE in year 9, as it would work against him if he had a long gap before he could start his A level.

Comefromaway · 29/12/2019 16:25

I think in this particular scenario (gcse/A level taken early due to exceptional ability won’t affect him as long as he also takes the usual 8 Gcse’s & 3 A levels in one sitting.

However where he might come unstuck is if he wants to apply for a maths degree. Many universities don’t allow deferred entry for maths based degrees as they don’t like a break in study. If he takes GCSE in year 9 & AS in year 10 presumably he’d complete the A level by Year 11/12 and then what will he do. There will inevitably be a gap in studying maths?

Hoghgyni · 29/12/2019 17:06

My high flying Oxbridge applicant friends all seem to have stretched themselves whilst taking maths are the usual time. They have excelled in the Olympiads, gone to master classes and summer schools, followed Cambridge HE+ programmes etc to broaden their skills whilst remaining with their year groups.

wembleee · 29/12/2019 18:54

@basilbrush it's true that a small number of top unis like Cambridge (but certainly not all RG unis) don't count it if taken early ... our local grammar puts all its A Level Further Maths students in for A Level Maths at end of Year 12 but they all have to do a fourth A Level to make sure they've got 3 grades at the end of year 13 for their university offers.

Panicmode1 · 29/12/2019 19:00

My DS took GCSE maths in Y10 (last summer) and got a 9 - he's doing what they call Ad Maths in Y11 (which carries UCAS points) and then for A Level is taking Physics, Maths and Further Maths for A level. The school is a superselective state grammar and they have a strong track record for engineering/physics/maths undergraduate offers at Russell Group and Oxbridge; they have advised us that he's on track for top results and offers at universities so I'm not worried....or wasn't until I read this !!

Panicmode1 · 29/12/2019 19:00

He's also going to take a 4th A Level - just not sure what it's going to be yet....

wembleee · 30/12/2019 09:37

No need to worry too much Panicmode1. It just means that if he sets his heart on going to one the small minority of unis with those guidelines and is given a conditional offer of, say, A, A,A, then he can't just rest on the laurels of whatever results he already has in the bag - he will need to get those 3 conditional A Level grades at the end of Year 13, like everybody else. No matter what his early achievement has been, the unis need to know he can handle the load of doing 3 A level subjects at the same time and still be successful.

Purpledragon40 · 30/12/2019 10:39

Equally importantly what is he going to do if he does his Maths GCSE and A levels and such early. Universities don't expect him to have 5 A Levels and they don't expect 13 GCSEs. If he has finished his Maths A Level by Year 11 is he still going to do the same number of A Levels. I wouldn't take it early unless it's how the schools runs their further maths system but from the sounds of things it's not. You seem to have a very gifted boy and the school is short of ideas for how to stretch him.

Original poster
basilbrush · 30/12/2019 10:40

Hmmm... this has all been very useful and thought-provoking!

I think we should maybe ask that he waits another year and sits his GCSE Maths at the end of Year 10. Then Additional Maths GCSE in Year 11 and then Maths and FM A Levels in 6th Form plus two other subjects...

I think he might be a bit bored in Year 10 but so be it!

OP posts:
Johnathonripples · 30/12/2019 10:56

panic- It looks like it’s the A level Maths that is a problem if taken early and not the gcse. I think your Ds will be ok.. particularly as his A level maths will be done at the normal time.

OP-I would very wary of any gaps in a subject that they might wish to take all the way.
Dc ( year 12) took 3 gcses early (school policy) ... got A* (old style in yr 9) and 9, 9 in year 10 . None of their early gcses are current A level subjects though as there was then a 1 and 2 year gap in learning the subjects and dc felt like their skills and confidence had weakened in each of them bar one (which is practiced extensively as extra curricular.)
Early entry gcse seemed like an ok idea at the time ( they still did 8 in year 11 so came away with 11 gcses altogether) but it had the effect of narrowing choice for them before A levels . I think dc would have chosen different A levels had they continued with all subjects until the end of yr 11.

Johnathonripples · 30/12/2019 11:05

Lol.. took too long writing that and ended up cross posting with you OP!
Sounds like a good plan
No need to be bored-( although nothing wrong with a bit of boredom either!) .. as others have said, I’m sure there is much sideways learning /challenges to be done with maths
Good luck to him