Quandaries about secondaries and moving house - N London vs Kent vs Surrey

[lostlondoner]

Hello

I live in East Surrey. I have never felt at home here but it's got better I guess! We are considering moving either further out to Tun Wells for a bit more life, prettier countryside and a bit less of a commuter town feel or moving back in to N London where we used to live for shorter commute and to enjoy London with kids. We are planning on doing it sooner rather than later as I think it will just be harder as they grow older.

We need to consider v carefully as don't want to move again so I have some questions about schools:

Tun Well grammars - am aware it is v pressured and tutoring is needed. And you have to live close by now for any real chance. Does anyone have any real life info on what it's like? I would hope we would not get drawn into the stress and just keep calm and carry on. Am happy to tutor but am also concerned at the pressure kids may feel. Have DS6 and DS3 so I have no real idea if they will be academic other than DS6 is doing v well right now, he's bright and enthusiastic but who knows what DS3 will be like! Is Skinners really good? It sounds fab once you are in. My only concern is that it is single sex but it's not a deal breaker.
If they dont get in what is the state option?
We are fortunate that we could consider private but is Sevenoaks the only one nearby? I'd prefer a less hot housey private but I don't think there is one. Maybe I'm wrong about Sevenoaks! And how hard is it to get into Sevenoaks? If they don't pass the 11+ I'm thinking they probably are not the right fit for Sevenoaks anyway.

N London - Does anyone have any opinions about Fortismere and APS? Are they the best options in Muswell Hill now? I've read a lot and get the impression pastoral care is not great at Fortismere which puts me off. Do either have anything they focus on like sport or art? Again I have no idea what my sons would be interested in right now but they do seem to like sport, maths and English.
Is Highgate School hard to get into at secondary? This would be our private choice in the area but we'd like to do state primary and have no idea if it's super hard to get into at 11+ What is the pressure like?

East Surrey - if we stay does anyone have any opinions about Reigate Grammar and Whitgift? And Caterham? I've got the impression Caterham is quite sporty but also highly academic. How hard is it to get in at 11+ from state primary? The state option is not great.

I'd like an all round school that isn't too hot housey with good pastoral care but perhaps that's because my sons are only tiny right now!! So hard to base a decision on a future you don't know.

If you've got this far thank you. Basically any intel on any of the schools mentioned would be v useful as we try and make a difficult decision.

I agree with @materridet regarding Tonbridge boys' non grammar state. OP, you mentioned Southborough and the proximity to High Brooms and Tonbridge stations. That road is a nightmare (during term time especially) - High Brooms would be ok if you're off St John's Road (Yew Tree Road and similar) but I wouldn't choose to drive to Tonbridge every morning unless you go extremely early.

Ok thanks good to know

I have a thread running about schools in a similar area.

To be honest, I think that you might need to be prepared for how competitive some of the independent schools are. I went to an open morning for one of the schools mentioned on this thread and there were at least 350 people there. Friends visiting Whitgift have reported similar numbers. Sevenoaks has just got into the Sunday Times list of top ten schools, alongside Eton College etc. Children are tutored to get in.

Just wanted add King Alfreds into the mix for N London private. No academic selection, much more relaxed academically than Highgate.

No idea how they actually choose students but being famous seems to help...

I think Kent is wonderful for primary but not great for Secondary. The grammar system isn't great for all kids (and I say this with kids who are likely to gain places) it can be very pressured and rigid without much room for actually enjoying the subjects but the non grammars are often absolutely dire. The Indies are also often the second choice for kids who failed 11+ so you don't get a real mix of abilities.

Thanks my head is hurting. I guess most other parents go through this and maybe some are more relaxed - I wish I could be! 😬
Kent grammars sound great as they obviously are free and get good results but yes who knows if my kids will be that way. It's a risk. But then Sevenoaks is up the road and we are lucky enough to be able to (scrape enough money together) afford it.

N London is a better commute. But it's so expensive! I'll take a look at King Alfreds thank you. And I'll also look at where I need to love for catchment to APS and Fortismere. It sounds as if Highgate Wood is improving too.

Part of me is thinking of staying put as we cannot decide for the best school wise. The primary is fine here (not amazing but good all the same) and we have a choice of privates around which seem less pressured to get into than Highgate. But I'm not sure I want to! And the kids would have a 30 min commute too.

Anyway thank again for everyone's advice and info on this tricky school world

If you move back into London, are you dead set on inner London? There are grammars in the boroughs of Barnet as well as Bromley and Bexley if you wanted to be either in N or SE London.

I’d also say not to bank on Sevenoaks if your kids don’t get into a Kent grammar as it’s a highly selective school so you’d need to be realistic with some back up options. It’s also on the pricier side - 24k a year or so - if you can only just scrape the fees together, it might make sense to look at cheaper options. Or have a good comp as a back up - much trickier in Kent than outer London.

I think if you're making the whole effort of moving specifically to get your kids into good schools it would make sense to move next to an outstanding comprehensive school rather than rely on grammar school or independent school places. Even the most selective independent schools are probably easier to get into than most grammars, but still why go through all the trouble of moving for school if not to live next door to a really good comp that you can always get into no matter what.

The problem is we weren't moving specifically for schools but to somewhere we thought would suit us as a family better now and in the future. Trouble is the school situation is not stacking up in any.

Incidentally where are the outstanding comps in London and the southeast?! Is it Dame Alice Owen, Wren Academy, Ashmole? How do I assess outstanding as on paper Fortismere is just that yet it seems in reality it is not?

www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/find-a-school-in-england

That’s where you can compare attainment. Then, you can listen to Mumsnet gossip and go to open days to form your own opinion.

Having worked in schools across London (over a hundred of them), for a bit of a bubble of a secondary with good behaviour, you really need to be in outer London. Inner city schools are inner city schools (ranging from police on premises at all times to less frequent violence against teachers or serious incidents between kids but I never saw one that was actually a patch on the nice schools in outer London).

@JoJoSM2 thank you 🙏🏻 much food for thought
I take it from your name you are South London/Sutton?

Perhaps I should look around SW London again. And by that I mean Wimbledon way or over towards Richmond/St Margs. Or are there still issues there? I'm not sure any further out would make any sense at all for us (not actually does the whole area!) but it's got more going on, we do have friends there and still fairly easy access to city and central London. And if it means we get a great choice of schools, including state, then that's worth it.

Around Richmond, you could get yourself in the catchments for Orleans Park or Grey Court (excellent academically with nicd kids). You might also want to look at the Tiffin (grammar in LB of Kingston) but have a careful read of the admissions policy (I think you should be in the inner priority area if you lived in the catchments of the comps above). Turing House is a recently open free school in Teddington that seems to be popular too and you’d get your posh villagey high street with Kingston town centre just across the river.

Wimbledon is a bit mor iffy for state schools, tbh.

And yes, I’m in Sutton. It has the highest GCSE attainment in England and is excellent for sporty/outdoorsy people but the high street is my one bugbear so I do head to Wimbledon Village or elsewhere for my posh shop fix every so often.

Oh dear. What a damming indictment of how some people view the UK state school system.

A lot of work still to be done until the right to a good education is seen as a level playing field for all.

How sad.