A Level Computer Science

[Ozzie9523]

DS (year 11) has his heart set on doing A Level Computer Science. However, his school did not offer it at GCSE, instead he has been doing OCR Creative iMedia (which started off as IT but was changed halfway through the course) which he has enjoyed and done well at. He wants to go into computing, possibly programming, and has done a bit of coding. We are currently looking at sixth forms (his current school doesn't have one) and two have mentioned that they are slightly concerned that he will be a fair bit behind other students who have studied the GCSE CS and that he would need to learn a computing language in his own time prior to joining. One last night mentioned that they would consider him on this basis and dependent upon him getting a 7 in maths (which looks hopeful). She said he needed to be realistic tho and accept that he'd be the "boy at the back of the class who didn't know anything" to start with. They've had one student before who hadn't studied GCSE and he got a C at A Level but needed a tutor in Year 13. DS wants to go for it and says he's prepared to put the work in to catch up. I'm a bit worried that he will be taking on too much, especially as he'll obviously also be taking two other A Levels, and feel he might be better doing a BTEC in Computing which another school is offering. I also keep reading the A Level CS is a very hard A Level. Has anyone's DC done A Level CS without doing the GCSE? Thanks

No personal experience but at sixth form open days we've been told that they regularly get students without GCSE CS taking the A Level. The first part of the course is a lot of recapping what was covered at GCSE, so students should catch up quickly (subject to putting in work of course - and your DS already has a head start if he codes in his spare time). They apparently don't see differences in end results.

So whilst your DS would be "the boy at the back of the class who didn't know anything" to start with, this should be fairly short lived. I'd probably be put off applying to a sixth form that was so negative about it though - suggests they are not really set up to support it. (The requirement for a 7 at maths also suggests high achieving school - that might be why they are so negative?)

You probably know this already but if DS wants to study Computer Science longer term, maths A Level is probably more important than CS.

Lots of A Level subjects should be used to students taking them with varying different past experiences. Unless we are talking the standard suite of English, maths, hums, langs and sciences etc, it is generally expected that some people may play catch up. I reckon (not a CS teacher) so long as he is a good mathematician, he will be fine. But, sadly, you may come across some school's entry policies.

What are his other two A Levels, by the way?

I teach the GCSE, and everything you have said is correct. If he really wants to do it he can but he has to understand that it's ridiculously difficult and he would have to put in a lot of work before even starting. I would get a revision guide and come past exams (gcse) so he can what he's letting himself in for. If he thinks that's really difficult then he needs to understand that A level is a massive step up. My colleagues who have more experience then me always tell me A level now includes a lot of stuff they studied as their degree. If he's willing to do the work then go for it.

That’s odd. My ds’s school has it at GCSE but you don’t need it to do A level.

What is the content of A level? Is it the same percentage of programming/ theory?

To be fair, all the new A Levels are harder than their predecessors. There is definitely degree content in 2 of the 3 I teach.

I have taught A Level Computer Science for years and it's a hard A Level. However, I have taught many students that have not done Computer Science at GCSE and if they they are mathematical and have put the effort in they have done really well. If he wants to do Computer Science or similar in University he really needs to be looking at doing maths A Level as well.

As a lecturer in computer science some of my best students have come on the course without prior experience. That being said I have also had students come on the course, get their first real exposure to CS and realise that they hate it.
The most significant factor has always been the effort put in by the individual.
If they really want to do CS (as opposed to Computing, Ethical Hacking etc) then a maths background would be a benefit and we definitely wouldn't turn someone away because they had math but not CS.
There are a wide range of resources to help them learn programming and computational thinking on their own. I personally would recommend a language like Python3 to get started with, websites like CodeAcademy offer a really good introduction (paid for, sorry) that they can work through in their own time, free ebooks like "Automate the easy stuff with Python" show how they might use these tools in the real world.

Just here to echo some of what has already been said. I'm an A-level Computer Science teacher at a large Hampshire sixth form. In our local area there are very few 11-18 state schools. We have approximately 150 new students enrolled each year. Since the availability and quality of CS GCSE in schools is so variable, it wouldn't be fair for us to have any expectation of doing it as a prerequisite. We only require maths GCSE 6.

I would say that about 3 to 7 students per class (out of 25) have NOT done the GCSE. Since there is a lot of overlap between the GCSE and A-level specifications, students having succeeded at GCSE undoubtedly feel more comfortable to start with. Especially with programming, fresh students are often playing catch-up for at least half a year. However, after that, there's no reason why they can't be in line with the rest of the cohort (or, indeed, overtake them).

I would say that, at this time of year, after one half term, many of my non GCSE students are working at a C grade, sometimes far ahead students who have completed the GCSE qualification. By the end of the course, we have definitely seen non GCSE students achieving A's and A*'s at A level. We do also have some non GCSE students at this stage who are really struggling. Our analysis shows that performance in GCSE Maths by far has the strongest correlation with final grade (those with high maths GCSE grades are much more likely to get high CS A-level grades, though that's certainly not always the case).

Due to similar issues with availability and quality of CS A-level, universities offering theoretical CS degrees cannot require the A-level. Instead, they require Maths A-level, and recap a lot of the A-Level content (of course, in much more depth).

As many other people have already said, the thing that makes the difference for those non GCSE students, apart from Maths ability, is a strong work ethic and an ongoing commitment to understanding and learning the content. Getting a head start with the programming language studied in the sixth form you choose over the summer before year 12 certainly wouldn't hurt. You should be able to ask them for resources for learning that particular language.

The fact that the sixth form you spoke to is concerned, worries me. I wonder whether or not they would offer a supportive course that caters for all ability levels.

I currently study CS Year 12 and I know for the last few years the A-Level group here have had nobody who has done computer science prior to the A-Level because they were taught ICT and the students were capable of the higher levels like As so I'm sure he will be fine, especially if he wants to take it because he should be doing something he enjoys 👍

Hi,
I'm a 6th form Computer Science teacher at a highly selective college.
In my opinion he should be fine. When we get our kids after the summer break, they really don't remember much at all and I start, at speed, from the basics.
But he would have to work hard.
The other answer is also correct tho. Most unis are happy with just Maths A Level although Oxford / Cambridge / imperial would require Further Maths too plus other internal test passes.
I would add one note of caution; if he hasn't done any computing or programming, what makes him think he could do it? It is not for everyone and some really bright people never get programming.

Im currently in year 12, my mum asked me to write this.

I did take it at GCSE but our teacher was so bad I basically taught myself the course. At a level, im finding it pretty easy as it's just GCSE standard stuff and I mean the easier parts of the GCSE course. If your son is happy to create a foundation for himself then the a level content should come pretty easy and natural to him. I'm guessing your son is pretty smart if he's going to get a grade 7. Most schools are happy to give extra tutoring, support and resources so I fully support the idea of him taking computer science a level. Yes like any a level it will get difficult, but I can say with certainty that it's a fairly smooth transaction. Some parts of the course are just common sense like the environmental impact and stuff. Good luck anyway x

My son has done CS at GCSE (grade 9) and now A level CS. In his class about 1/3 of students haven't studied it for GCSE but so far are coping fine.

There are lots of things online for them to do outside the classroom to help their understanding of the subject put on by the staff. Ds would agree that a good maths grade helps. It is more to do with logical thinking. Ds learned (for fun) a new coding language after his GCSEs were finished as he had 10 weeks from his exams finishing until starting sixth form.

There are AQA and OCR walk throughs on YouTube to give your son an idea of the GCSE content, but if he has a can do attitude to learning then I cannot see why he can't take it for A level. I believe some universities don't require the A level for the degree, but do need maths or possibly further maths.

If he really wants to go for it and something he enjoys then do it. I finished A level computer science this year and achieved a B. I have had no prior Computer Science from year 7-11 because my school didn't offer it at the time. The only It knowledge I had was a bit of coding from codecadamy and core ICT (which was just knowledge on word, Excel and PowerPoint). My GCSEs were music and media studies but I still managed to do A level computer science. Cs is a wide range of topics and a lot of it was brand new to me but as long as it's a subject you enjoy (as it was for me) then you'll do well in it because you'll want to learn as I did. I don't know whether they offer it as a 1 or 2 Year Course but if it's 1 then don't because that's not enough time to learn everything. Mine was 2 years which the first year was AS level and the 2nd year was A level which is As with additional topics. And just a side note with the maths, I don't think it should be that important. I got an 8 at GCSE for maths but the binary and hex is basic maths and I think needing a 7 is a bit much.

Even though I shouldn't be on this site I am a student currently studying GCSE computing if you would like your son can look at my notes to maybe help him on his way. I love computing/computer science and would be happy to help someone who also shares the passion

Personally I did the GCSE, but people at my school have taken the alevel without the GCSE. I think he'll definitely be behind and should take that into consideration as it'll be hard to get an A* without the prior knowledge (mainly in the programming project ) but it would be doable but would require a lot of coding practice. I think he should also remember that he does not need computing alevel to do computing at university, maths is the main requirement. If he wants to do it at university then definitely do alevel maths over a BTEC, but for an apprenticeship a BTEC would be better experience

Second year Computer Science University student here :) I'd say definitely go for it - my school didn't do A-Level Computer Science until a few years ago so I was the first year to be able to take it. Up until then all we had been taught was GCSE ICT which apart from teaching us to use the Microsoft Office suite and about floppy disks, left us rather in the dark when it came to actual programming/computer science! However a bunch of us still took it at A-Level and very few of us had actually programmed before. Programming in particular is something you can really easily pick up if you put your mind to it and I loved every second of it. There's a ton of resources online if help is needed outside of the classroom (Stackoverflow, Hackerrank, GeekforGeeks, W3Schools and many more) so I definitely wouldn't worry about it being 'too' hard. It's a challenge sometimes, but I'd say worth it.

I am currently in year 13. Doing comp sci, maths and religious studies. I had no previous experience of computer science as it wasn't offered at GCSE. I however, did enjoy watching tech yt videos which helped me understand the majority of the things I missed. Personally I don't think doing comp sci at GCSE is necessary and they say you will need to put a lot of work in but tbh it's not that hard as long as you enjoy coding and the technical aspects.
The best thing to do is sign up to Harvard's online Edx course and just do the first could of Course. That is what helped me to gain any knowledge I missed from not doing it at GCSE but I also learn more about the branches it can lead off into.
I also recommend going to university lectures, just a few. Cambridge's masterclass and Imperials were probably the best. And maybe he should read Algorithms to live by, just to appreciate how important comp sci is to everyday life.

Hi there,
I did my A Levels one year ago (2018) and did A Level Computer Science without doing the GCSE. I will agree that the A Level is really difficult, and can confirm that the A Level Comp Sci I did had quite a bit of degree content in (I am doing a computer science degree now).
What I will say is that although A Levels were insanely difficult, it is possible to get good grades. I hadn't studied GCSE computer science, yet I managed to get a B in it at A Level and 3 As in other subjects. It just takes a hell of a lot of work.
If your son is considering computer science, maybe tell him to look up a programming language first (Python or C# are good ones to start with) and tell him to look at 'tracing algorithms' and 'boolean algebra'. These are a couple of the hardest topics in the A Level (in my experience), so don't be scared by them - they will be taught and explained. Just let him see if that's the sort of thing he is interested in.
I didn't really need maths for my A Level particularly - only occasionally and it wasn't difficult maths or anything. The difficult maths comes in at degree level in my experience.
Hope this helps.

@Ozzie9523 I've read on other threads that there is a lot of overlap between GCSE CS and A Level CS, so there would only be an issue if the school was hoping to skim through the early modules as "revision". My concern from what you've said would be the attitude of the teachers. Maybe you need to looks at schools/colleges where they are expecting a few newbies and are more welcoming. The school my son goes to would welcome you with open arms and would make sure your son was the boy at the front of the class who got the additional support he needed to achieve his goals!
Something worth looking at is the Dr Frost website, famous for its free maths resources, but now also providing GCSE Computer Science resources. Your son could work through those and see how he gets on. See
www.drfrostmaths.com/cshome.php

Another suggestion could be to look at BTec Computer Science. It's a interesting course, equivalent to one A Level, but without the coding. But if he does that it would be worth doing some coding in his own time - there are loads of free resources online for that.

Our school doesn't require GCSE CS if you want to study A-level.

I think he should put CS down as an option now and spend the long summer after GCSEs teaching himself Python. Most schools allow a change in subjects after results day and by then he should have a good idea about whether CS is for him.

isaaccomputerscience.org/

A free resource for A'level (funded by Dept of Education)

If he has never coded properly, I'd have him follow some progressive tutorials in Python online, follow along and then attempt the Python GCSE exam Qs.
Like others have said above, some people love/are good at programming, others not so much. It is best to find that out before the A level.

I did computer science at GCSE and a level, and I found the course okay, not too difficult and not too easy. There was someone in my class who hadn't done GCSE and so for year 12 they were a fair bit behind, especially in programming, but once they started really putting effort in they soon caught up. My advice would be to find out what programming language the college or 6th form will be using and start learning it as soon as exams are done. You could also try getting a GCSE computer science textbook for him to start reading so he knows the kind of stuff that his classmates would know.

Hi there! I'm a year 12 CS student and I think I've probably got some relevant information.For my course (OCR), the first ~4 weeks were a catch-up on alot of the GCSE spec. I really think, if your son want to have a career in programming, that A level computer science is the course for him. It can be a hard course, but it sounds like he is already doing programming outside of school, and a key part of the course is learning about programming and computational thinking, which are skills that he already uses. I really would recommend pushing for computing A level. I'd also think that whatever teacher said that to your son probably wasn't the nicest. I'd recommend him applying for A level computing (If it really doesn't work out, most 6th forms offer a few weeks to switch between courses at the start of year 12 to find the right one) and I'd recommend, through the extended summer after year 11, that he has a look at some GCSE material and spends some time learning a programming language (python is easiest to start off with).