A Level Computer Science

[Ozzie9523]

DS (year 11) has his heart set on doing A Level Computer Science. However, his school did not offer it at GCSE, instead he has been doing OCR Creative iMedia (which started off as IT but was changed halfway through the course) which he has enjoyed and done well at. He wants to go into computing, possibly programming, and has done a bit of coding. We are currently looking at sixth forms (his current school doesn't have one) and two have mentioned that they are slightly concerned that he will be a fair bit behind other students who have studied the GCSE CS and that he would need to learn a computing language in his own time prior to joining. One last night mentioned that they would consider him on this basis and dependent upon him getting a 7 in maths (which looks hopeful). She said he needed to be realistic tho and accept that he'd be the "boy at the back of the class who didn't know anything" to start with. They've had one student before who hadn't studied GCSE and he got a C at A Level but needed a tutor in Year 13. DS wants to go for it and says he's prepared to put the work in to catch up. I'm a bit worried that he will be taking on too much, especially as he'll obviously also be taking two other A Levels, and feel he might be better doing a BTEC in Computing which another school is offering. I also keep reading the A Level CS is a very hard A Level. Has anyone's DC done A Level CS without doing the GCSE? Thanks

I’m sorry to say, OP, that with the newish Linear A Level in Computer Science and the fact your son has only done the Creative iMedia, I would seriously reconsider him doing the A Level. The student who got a C with an extra tutor did very very well and is not the norm. Very very much so.

I would seriously just consider doing the Maths A Level and getting two other good A Level grades in subjects he has done before.

Good A level grades are more important than the subject in this case. He can still do it for a degree.

You wouldn’t advise a student just starting out, in say, Spanish, Mandarin, Physics etc. to begin with an A level qualification, having never studied it before.

I have often worried about the amount of people who think they can, with Computer Science, just because their children have used a computer before. It is not fair on them.

They have spoken English before, turned on a light switches etc. but makes no difference in the above A Levels. It doesn’t with Computer Science either.

I am a Computer Science teacher.

P.S Programming is only in the coursework which is 20% and even then, only 25 of the marks, out of 70....

isaaccomputerscience.org/

A free resource for A'level (funded by Dept of Education)

This has only been up for a few weeks and is still largely unfinished...

I also noticed how little content there is on that site!

Thank you so much everyone for your very helpful responses, it’s much appreciated. I’m going to print this thread for my DS and see what he thinks x

I’m going to print this thread for my DS and see what he thinks x

Excellent OP. Can you also add that some of the ex or current students above have done the old syllabus that was much easier or are currently just into Year 12 which is very very similar to the GCSE (because of Gove and the speed of the 9-1 GCSEs, Ofqual took most of the old AS level and shoved it in the GCSE) and when they start covering the A Level content, such as De Morgan’s Law, A* Algorithms, Linked Lists, Tree graphs etc. they will suddenly find themselves in at the deep end. By being able to fall back on the GCSE content present in the A level, they will be able to devote themselves to the complicated topics more deeply.

And that is if the Sixth Forms he is looking at are doing the OCR course.
The AQA course is even harder, with tractable problems, Turing machines, finite state machines and vector problems. Plus an onscreen exam where he has to program under speed. Even the most proficient professional would struggle with that.

Your DS’s Creative iMedia bears zero resembles to the A Level in Computer Science, I’m afraid. Loving computers is not enough.

As someone above has said, it bares a very very close resemblance to the actual degrees universities offer. Having the GCSE as a background is sensible.

Would your DS do a Maths A Level, if, in a parallel universe, say, he had never done Maths before? Obviously not! It would be unthinkable.

I'm horrified at ChloeDecker's "advice", given without any knowledge of the OP's son's aptitude for the subject. If students who haven't done CS at either GCSE or A Level can (and do) get places on some of the most competitive CS degree courses in the country, then the idea that not doing GCSE CS rules out A Level is ridiculous. It isn't a core subject like maths or physics - it's a subject that can be taken up at any stage. Our country is crying out for computer scientists ... nobody should be snuffing out this boy's enthusiasm.

My son is doing GCSE CS at the moment. He's had 3 different teachers in 18 months, and a whole term of cover teachers, but he'll probably still get a 8 or 9 because he enjoys the subject, has an aptitude for it and, frankly, finds it easy. Just because the OP's son didn't get the chance to do GCSE means nothing .. if he has an aptitude/interest he could easily catch up over the summer and in the first term of A Level.

I am not surprised that’s you seem horrified at what I have written. It is bad isn’t it? I wish I didn’t have to and all schools taught the key stage 3 curriculum and offered the GCSE to all. But they don’t. In fact most don’t and there are reasons for that. Mostly because it is hard and not the old ICT route.

I have been teaching the A Level in CS both old and new since 2004. There will always be exceptions but on the whole, it is a very difficult subject to just pick up for the first time at A level.

Be honest now. Would you be equally horrified, if someone like noblegiraffe was advising someone, who had never studied maths (weird to think about I know) to not start with the A level.

You wouldn’t.

But Computer Science seems fair game because people use computers so therefore, they can pick up something like Big O Notataion, just like that, obviously.

I wouldn’t be doing my job properly if I didn’t say what I did. If, despite that, and the OP’s DS still wanted to take on the A Level (and I bet he or the OP hasn’t looked through the syllabus for OCR or AQA in detail, most often don’t) then at least they would be approaching it realistically and not under the illusion that it is just ‘programming games’ as many do.

Chloe, no I wouldn't say the same for maths, because I don't think it's the same. I've worked as a programmer, and now as a project manager on software development projects and very few of the people I work with have any sort of CS qualification at all ... what they have is an aptitude and an interest. One of our local schools (a grammar) gets a dozen or more students onto Computer Science courses at RG universities every year, including Oxbridge, but they don't teach CS at all. Can you imagine going to do maths at Oxford if you didn't have a GCSE or A Level in it? It wouldn't happen ... but it happens with Computer Science all the time.

I rest my case. You have proved my point.

Not once in your post do you refer to the actual A level in question. You forget my earlier post where I said it is better to have Maths and two other good results in an A Level because I know you can get a career is ‘programming’ having not done the actual subject before.

I am not talking about people’s careers (and I can bet, as a programmer, you would struggle with a lot of the topics of the A level, I know because I used to be a programmer too) because the careers don’t need you to know the ins and outs of Dykstra’s Path etc. I too went straight to a Computer Science degree without the A level because in 1997, my school didn’t offer it and the GCSE didn’t exist. However, the new Linear A Level is not something that can easily be picked up and the OP’s DS deserves a shot and getting the best A level grades he can get and not settling for a C, as mentioned.

My point is that programming is such a very small part of the A Level (did you know that?) that many really struggle with it if they haven’t done the GCSE (which your DS is doing so would be fine but the OP’s DS has not).

So, in actual fact, the Maths A Level comparison is the same. For example, even with a Maths GCSE, many Sixth Forms still require students to sit an additional exam for entry, because it is so different to the GCSE. I don’t see you up in arms over that...

It wouldn't happen ... but it happens with Computer Science all the time.

Because so many Sixth Forms and schools need don’t actually offer it at all so can cannot discriminate. The universities want bums on seats.
You should instead wonder why so many schools don’t teach it and you should be more angry at the OP’s DS’s school which denied him the opportunity to do the GCSE in the first place. My school allows anyone to take it for GCSE but then, I know I prepare them well for it from Years 7-9 too.

I do understand what you are saying chloe but there are, in fact, lots of A Level subjects that students can pick up without a GCSE. I teach two.

It would be great if schools offered GCSES in all of those subjects but the expert staffing (staffing full stop!) isn't there, especially in computing. And underfunding of schools means most schools are not keen to introduce new GCSEs.

The universities want bums on seats.

I was talking about Oxbridge, Imperial etc! They are oversubscribed. They want bright minds. My problem with your negativity is that you haven't even asked whether OP's kid is a high flyer or not. You're just basing your answer on the average joe blogs.

You should instead wonder why so many schools don’t teach it and you should be more angry at the OP’s DS’s school which denied him the opportunity to do the GCSE in the first place

No, because I know exactly why they don't teach it - because they don't have a teacher.... because there aren't enough teachers.

The reason my son has had 3 teachers is that even the few existing teachers are of variable quality ... they might be former programmers, or have done all the relevant qualifications, but they can't plan a lesson properly or handle the restless, frustrated teenagers who aren't engaged by their teaching style, or who can't understand their limited English.

You sound like a good teacher, and your school is probably lucky to have you, but unless your classes are oversubscribed, I think it's wrong to turn away interested enthusiastic students on principle, without getting to know them and their specific circumstances. The country needed more Computer Scientists, not least so that more of them can become teachers.

No, because I know exactly why they don't teach it - because they don't have a teacher.... because there aren't enough teachers.

For Computer Science, a huge part of that is because it is too hard. There are plenty of teachers to teach the ICT vocational subjects like Creative iMedia....

Well, I do understand your points and I hope on some level you can understand mine. And for the record, I have never turned students away but I will do my best to make sure they know what they are signing up for. Too many students in the past have flunked because they did not fully appreciate hat it was so different to ICT.
A lot of people underestimate the amount of students who want to choose Computer Science without actually knowing what it covers. I mean, they haven’t even read the specification first. And every year, I send off many a successful student to study Computer Science-more to Imperial than he average probably! I do a lot to help bolster the industry I hope

Have a lovely day and good luck to the OP’s DS.

Yes, I do understand your points, but I hope the OP's son will read the specification, research what the GCSE covered, and also take other people's points into account - only they know whether they have the motivation to succeed.

For Computer Science, a huge part of that is because it is too hard. There are plenty of teachers to teach the ICT vocational subjects like Creative iMedia....

I think it's too hard for the teachers, but not necessarily for the gifted and talented students they are often responsible for. It's obviously unfortunate that our teaching pay scales and conditions don't encourage the brightest minds into teaching. I'm a parent governor, and often involved in interviewing - it's uncommon to see candidates with strong academic performance performance in the subject they want to teach.

Also worth mentioning that headhunting of CS teachers by agencies and private schools is rife. The biggest risk on any CS course with a great teacher is that the teacher will leave, and won't be replaced.

Just would like to add that what Chloe said about the lack of programming in A-level Computer Science may be true for the OCR spec. However, we teach the AQA specification, and programming is a significant part of the course. My students spend roughly 50% of lesson time discussing and writing code, and just less than 50% of the AQA assessment is looking at programming.

Definitely worth looking at alternatives at sixth form too, such as ICT and Computer Games Design. This will help build a full picture so your son can make the most informed decision.

Absolutely matwx I did say this regarding AQA above.

Previously students studying academic Computer Science degrees had to pick it all up from scratch without having done an ‘academic’ computer science GCSE or A level. Not a problem since generations of highly competent academic computer scientists were produced in that way.
No reason therefore why an able pupil can’t cope with starting the A level from scratch.

Thanks everyone for your very helpful replies. We are now in the process of applying to three sixth forms - 2 offer A Level Computer Science (AQA spec and OCR spec) and another offers BTEC Computing. Is this similar to computer science A level? He does want to learn programming. I've printed the spec for him and I guess we need to read through this thoroughly before making a decision, but just wondered if anyone knew the answer to this. I'm suspecting that the BTEC might be good for him, (the school confirmed it is still difficult) and the school gets very good results.

My daughter finished sixth form without ever having coded. Decided that would be the thing for her but didn't want to go to uni. We found a paid for college/business who taught it. It took about four months after she got on the course (lots of or e-learning to be done) got a job the week after she finished. So 6k of debt instead of £40k or whatever it is.
Just offering another direction.