SW London girls independent/grammars thread 2020

[autumnnightsaredrawingin]

Last year, there were two amazing threads which were super helpful about exactly this, so I wanted to start a thread for girls due to start September 2020. If anyone from last year wants to contribute please do!

We have narrowed our choices down to 5, sadly not in the right postcode for Tiffin, and decided not to do the Sutton grammars.

So, she will be doing PHS, WHS, LEH, SHS and Woldingham. Also registered for Emanuel but we may pull that one.

@Glittercats your message is spot on, excellent advice.

@Glittercats - which schools did your dc end up at? I'd love to hear more things (good and bad) about G&L and LU. Still going around in circles! Looking forward to our tours next week but worried we'll still be undecided.

@glittercats your message is so spot on. The pressure these 10 year olds have already felt since the age of 9 or even earlier is intense, I have done my absolute best to play it down for my DD and that’s why when she didn’t get through the first round of WHS I was so tempted to pull her out of at least one of her exams. I just tried to reiterate to her that trying her best was enough- we had no expectations.

I think looking after their mental health is so important. Thank you for your post.

@Glittercats thank you for you giving me a clearer idea on scholarships. My DS got a place in DC but without academic scholarship although his friend did. They are both very academically strong. My son is just happy that he got offered a place. You have a good point about trying to keep up with that expectation. I wonder if it really makes a big difference other than financially.

At LU, the music teacher once told my DC that he gets quite cross because there are pupils on music scholarships who don’t actually want to be in the various orchestras etc because they suddenly decide they want to row or do x,y,z instead. There are DC who have been doing Suzuki since the age of 2 or whatever, so naturally at a high “prodigy” level, but don’t have the love for music and natural aptitude that others display once in the school, Also, some of them don’t want to take music GCSE even, because they are steered by parents to do other subjects considered more academic or on track for certain careers. He said he would rather wait until they are in the school and then award to those who show natural enthusiasm, talent and commitment.

At LU there are loads of DC on all kinds if configurations of bursaries / scholarships etc and the school is brilliant for this actually, but it doesn’t really make any difference to who is “top” or who gets the best GCSEs. They all get good GCSEs, in the main. A “9” is a “9” at the end of the day. It’s a big school and so much going on with so many DC talented in so many ways, that they do have to be quite resilient. Actually, the schools do a lot of work with the pupils in this area - LU, G&L and SPGS run joint talks for parents about teen mental health. They have BOUNCE week which is all about learning resilience and coping with failure. At LU they can drop into the counselling dept at any time. It helps that there are so many diverse types in that school that it’s hard to compare yourself with others. Even for maths, there are ten or more maths sets. The top sets are quite obvious because they know who they are . But for the rest of them, they say at parents evening that the setting is all very rough and they’re grouped according to the types of maths abilities eg are they strong in spatial maths but not so much in other ways, etc. What’s great is they get the older pupils to offer academic mentoring to younger ones. This looks great in the UCAS forms , but they’re also consolidating their own learning in having to explain. Above all, they run so many charity service trips to give the DC a reality check. For instance, this year most if not all of the sixth form are doing 3 days stints in Calais, working in the refugee warehouses. They’ve been out planting thousands of trees all over London. Following the Grenfell fore they took pupils and archers if a nearby affected school in so they could finish their A-levels. They are non-stop in that school, they really are. They do so much beyond the curriculum, there’s not enough hours in the day. They are very privileged to get such a dynamic education and what’s brilliant, is they have a “Horizon Fund” which states that no pupil should ever be denied a trip or other opportunity due to their families financial circumstances. You just apply for the funding for whatever you want to do. So there are DC on bursaries zipping round the world on Mandarin trips to China, or service trips to Burma - all free - and it’s life-changing for any young person.

Some of the schools in this thread differ between whether the girls are required to do 9, 10 or 11 gcse’s. Does anyone have a view on whether the number you do genuinely makes a difference to excellent Uni offers? Thanks.

I have always understood from friends with older children that it makes no difference at all (one phoned round admissions tutors etc and was very thorough in her research).
My daughter's school does 11 GCSE plus additional maths for some and I'm glad she hasn't had to drop more subjects than she wanted to. It's definitely worth considering as a factor when making your 11+ choices.

That's a very good point @Bagpipes1234 and one I am planning to ask when we do our tours. Some of our back-up schools definitely only do 9 and that would mean dropping some subjects.

Hi sorry to go on and on, but I’ll just say this in case it’s any help? I don’t think unis can discriminate against schools that offer 9 GCSEs because that would be discrimination against most of the state sector.

LU do ten, but they also run their own course called “World Perspectives” which is compulsory alongside ten GCSEs. Students get a certificate for this based on coursework modules and it’s pass, merit or distinction. The course introduces them to a lot of concepts they would not normally come across until A-level such as economics; sustainable development, inequality, politics and international relations, etc. They can also do Further Maths of course.

Also check with schools if it’s compulsory to do all 3 sciences. In most, it will be, but some will offer a “double science” award where they still cover all 3 sciences, but to the value of 2 GCSEs, rather than 3. At LU, 3 sciences used to be compulsory, but now they let you drop one whole science, which is good if you know you’re going down the humanities or languages route, eg you can do history and geography with two languages instead.

More important is A-level. I have one at G&L who is soon to do GCSE options. I can’t fault the school, to be honest, but one thing I am concerned about is that they all have to do 4 A-levels but then usually drop one at the end of Year 12. I’m not sure what the point of this is really, because there’s no AS level any more, so isn’t this just a waste of time? Also, I’ve heard that the more able ones tend to get sifted towards the IB, which is why their IB results are best in the world. At LU, they strongly recommend doing 3 A-levels only. They do a big presentation about this and show all the research they’ve done across all the unis and apparently none of them require a fourth A- level and will only look at your best 3 grades. They strongly recommend using this time to do an EPQ instead (this is a dissertation that can be on any subject if your choice but unis apparently like it because it shows independent research skills etc and also it can give them something to talk about at uni interviews if it’s in a relevant subject). The EPQ gets bound into a hardback book and is graded like an A-level. The only ones who do 4 A-levels are those applying to certain US unis, or bi-linguals or maybe those doing further maths. It’s easier to do 4 non-essay subjects obviously, than 4 essay-heavy subjects. Anyway, this might well all change in coming years, but it’s worth checking out because the time comes around quickly!

I looked into this A lot with my son who is older. Unis offer based on 8 grades at GcSE and some schools will only offer 8, so they have to do it this way. They want the best eight grades and as long as there is maths and English and science, they don’t really look at subject choices either. This is what I was told when I called some unis my son is interested in. Most schools who offer ten or eleven gcse will not be offering more actual ‘choices’ - they will be enforcing a language, humanities or triple science at gcse. For me the most important thing is how many choices the kids get in their options and also how the options are decided. For example in my DS school last year his friend couldn’t do geography as not enough boys wanted to do it - they had a minimum of 8. DS also couldn’t do Music and Spanish as that was in the same options block. I had no idea about this when I was looking at school for him, so I’m being more careful with DD. The questions I am asking this time (Dd doing this all next year as she’s in y5) will be how many actual choices can the girls make (to play to their strengths and do what they actually enjoy) and do they have blocks or block around the choices? Also do the schools say they will have a minimum number for a gcse to run? Some schools guarantee everyone their choices and some don’t. For my DD the idea of a language being compulsory would be a no/no as she’s mildly dyslexic And already struggles at her prep with French. It’s hard to know at 10 what they will want to do for gcse, so I’m looking at the flexibility really. Also the message from DS school is that it is quality of grades over quantity of GCSEs. I think this sounds sensible, so I’m glad he will only have to revise 9 subjects and hopefully get better grades because of having one less to do. At options evening we were told the GCSEs have got significantly harder since 2016 and so trying to do 11 for the sake of it doesn’t appeal. DS is at a state grammar, so they obviously don’t think 11 - or even 10 - are needed. I think some do an extra one in y10 but this is maths or statistics for the very top set and looking at last year the results for that subject were not great.

Also (and I will shut up after this), just in case anyone is tossing up between a scholarship place elsewhere and the lack of one at G&L or LU - At LU, if they get all or mostly 9s In the GCSEs, they get a letter from the head to say they are entering the Sixth Form with the title of “scholar” and this title will be stated on any future UCAS applications. It’s not a financial award and it’s a title rather than a “scholarship”, but not sure if unis would bother to distinguish? Also, most schools make you reapply for scholarships going into sixth form anyway, so do check this. G&L and other schools may do something similar for the sixth form, but we’re not there yet so not sure.

I would say, G&L is a slightly less “cool school” than LU in terms of the type of girls. I think there’s less social pressure on them in the early years. LU is more orientated towards the upper years, I’d say, whereas G&L is more nurturing from the start. Of course, there will be spats and “interesting” characters in any school, but most of the girls at G&L are confident within themselves without being OTT. That’s how I’d put it. They support each other and there’s a more containing atmosphere. If they sing, there are a variety of types of choirs at G&L they can audition for from year 8, whereas at LU there is only one selective choir that go on all the tours etc and that’s for the upper school (year 10 upwards, once the boys voices mature). There are only about 16-20 in this, across the 4 voice types. Otherwise you’re in the girls or boys choirs which anyone can join.

@Gliitercats your messages are very helpful, thanks!

Thanks @Glittercats, lots of very helpful info (please don't worry about going on too much, your information is exactly what I - and probably others - need to help make our decision!). Our decision would have been between G&L and LU - they are our closest schools. But the LEH academic scholarship and music exhibition will save £4K+ per year compared to G&L, which is useful as we have two other kids. However I would prefer to make our decision trying to put the money to one side and get the right school for dd. I totally hear what you say about the pressure on scholars. She's coming from a pretty basic state school so wherever she goes will be a massive change and a big step up.

Our dd is quietly confident and loves to sing in choirs, play in orchestra etc as well as be in lots of sports teams. As she's more reserved in large groups, she is probably more what one would imagine as a natural fit for G&L but she's actually quite a daredevil and pretty determined so I could see her rising to the challenge of LU. She is used to dealing with boys as she's in a co-ed state at the moment. It's a shame that there are so few places in the special LU choir - she has a lovely voice but there must be a lot of competition. I think in general she has enormous potential, just not sure which school would be the best for unlocking it and showing her that she can achieve the world. I guess that's at the heart of what we're looking for - the school that helps her be the best person she can be and gives her the confidence to pursue her passions and believe in herself.

@Glittercats your information has been very useful and good to know when my DD is sitting for schools. Unfortunately my younger DS didn’t get offered a place at LU. We are now deciding between Ibstock/ Emanuel or keep him at prep. All these decisions, he likes Ibstock place but him not sure if it’s academically challenging for him.

Thank you all for such detailed posts covering every question that springs to mind and also those that I wasn't even aware needed consideration.

@givemesomewineplease your words are exactly what each one of us is going through. A tough decision!

It is great that there is a further opportunity to be at LU before the acceptance deadline. This forum has been so helpful!

Sass22- what makes you think that your ds won’t be academically challenged at Ibstock? There are plenty of bright dc at the school! I suspect Emanuel is much more laid back academically than IPS!

givemesomewine - Hmm, £4K per year is a significant amount. £20k over 5 years. I see your dilemma. Is that with the cost of the coach factored in as well? How long would the journey actually be and is the coach stop an easy walk?

Is G&L the most expensive of the three anyway?

We were in a similar situation a few years back as one of mine had scholarship offer at another consortium school. G&L just offered a place, but obviously she had sat the same exam for both. DD bad choosing G&L, but she would have practically had to pass by G&L every day to get the train to FHSS, so that clinched it. She also had a scholarship at PHS, but we went for the school within walking distance. Sometimes though, there are so many lunatics around Hammersmith, I do wish she was on a coach!

Sass thanks. Ibstock won’t hold a child back. It’s a very results-driven school, some day too much so tbh. Mine have various friends there. The homework is quite a lot, so Im told.

As a parent of a dd that signs up for anything and everything do not underestimate the journey to these schools!
Unless the financial element of the scholarship makes it possible for her to go (when otherwise she would not) go for the school with the easiest journey when you are comparing offers between excellent schools.
I am grateful nearly every day to have made that decision.

Their lives are SO full. Homework, music, drama, sport, house events etc.. to waste hours on a coach in traffic every day really is a complete waste of time they do not have. Not to mention all those times you'll be driving over to pick up from late night events!

If you have a child who is not that into the extra curriculars it is much less of an issue, infact the coach journey can turn into their social time.

But that doesn't sound like your dd *givemesomewine"

glittercats name a school that isn’t results driven....! Surely the crazy 11+ hysteria that pervades London whereby kids are overly tutored to get into ‘top’ schools means that everyone cares about academics? By virtue of the selection process alone implies that all of the schools mentioned on MN are very results driven? I don’t see how Ibstock is any different? And actually homework isn’t that excessive. I do feel sorry for IPS always getting a bad press. It’s a very lovely school.

Hi Gandtime, thank you for your reply. I guess it’s all hearsay. The reputation it gets from other people. My son did say that he saw something special about the school. I wish they had a offer day. Just gives me more of an insight. It’s nice to hear that it’s a nice school.

Sass22 if you call the registrar they will arrange for you to have another tour and you can ask all the questions you want about it! They don’t advertise an ‘offers day’ but they are more than happy to show people around who haven’t made up their minds.

I agree that Ibstock does get some bad press and head is marmite, but the children I know who go are very happy there. I have heard there is a lot of homework. They are definitely pushed academically. It has had the reputation of being more 'monied' in the past due to to the location and Emanuel more down to earth. I would say both schools are the same academically, it's about feel and fit, journey and location in terms of where friends are.

How's everyone getting on with their decision-making?
Friday is decision day for us - we're visiting FHS again on Thursday and then hoping to get it all sorted by the weekend.

No progress here with decision-making! Various tours etc booked in this week and then hoping we have a front runner by Friday. It's taking the shine off enjoying her fantastic achievement of securing a great secondary school as I just don't know where we will end up. The school I would probably choose, for logistical reasons as much as anything else, is considerably more expensive taking everything into account, which is an important factor for us. So it's really hard. But I know it's a nice problem to have so I don't have any right to moan!

@ColaPip - are you still hoping for G&L? Which are you leaning towards between FHSS and WHS? They're both lovely schools. It may not affect you, but one thing that was a potential issue for us with FH was the early morning sports training starting at about 7.10 in Battersea Park, if your dd is likely to want to be in any extra curricular teams. That would have meant a v early wake up for dd. But otherwise I loved the ethos and dynamism of the school.