In Defence of Private Schools

[Wayland1]

What do you think of Labour's private school plans?

Yesterday, Labour delegates voted for plans that would abolish private schools, with plans to remove charitable status and redistribute their endowments, investments and properties to the state sector. In addition, a new social justice commission would be tasked with integrating private schools into the state system.

This amounts to unlawful seizure of private property. Government, in a law-governed society, cannot simply seize private property in peacetime.

Also, you do not improve education by destroying what are some of the UK's best educational institutions. I agree that our education system isn't perfect, and that we may get frustrated at, for example, the excessive fees and running costs of most private schools nowadays. But in my opinion, the way to improve the situation is to have more choice and competition, not less.

What do you think?

“No, but they are both much rarer than in the state sector“
How can you possibly say that?

To coin a phrase, “Easily”!

I am a leftie and I think it's ridiculous, unlawful, not enforceable and downright wrong.

There's better ways to level the playing field.

And the complete inability to see that behaviour really is better is what keeps state schools in the position that they are in.

Of course behaviour is better! It always is in selective schools.

Hate to say it, but nitpicking isn't an argument. I never suggested that the behaviour in independents is always exemplary, but there is an expectation of a standard, and that standard is generally maintained, certainly close to (on the way to ) and within the school. The students are not perfect - they are teens - but they are a bloody nice lot, on the whole (in our school). And, no, porn is not the norm on phones anywhere near school, God forbid within school. Phone use is generally banned within school apart from few exceptions. There is makeup and poor behaviour sometimes - of course - what planet are you on? But it is rare. Out of my daughter’s year there is one girl who wears makeup to school. There is no feeling that the others have to do likewise or to conform to any other behaviour.
Bertrand - you seem to keep changing tack.

So, focus on the state system for a moment - how would you improve it? What would it look like, ideally, in your view? How could it be achieved, and do you believe it could ever truly be fair and provide all children with the means to reach their potential? All children - with the various needs and abilities & potentials? How far would political will go, or is it, as I suspect, just a route to get everyone to a standard level?

No, but they are both much rarer than in the state sector“
How can you possibly say that?

In fairness, Bertrand, you are constantly posting about what goes on in private schools despite the fact your dc went to state schools.

“s it, as I suspect, just a route to get everyone to a standard level?”

What do you mean by “a standard level”?

“In fairness, Bertrand, you are constantly posting about what goes on in private schools despite the fact your dc went to state schools.”

I don’t make factual statements that I can’t back up by anecdote or data. @CendrillonSings said categorically that certain behaviours happen less in private schools than state schools, and I simply asked how she knew. For all I know, she’s got reams of data.

Dd was delighted to step off the appearance treadmill.

Porn on phones literally does not happen, or if it has ever happened noone knows about it. No-one is waving their phone around showing off porn, totally blatant because they know nothing will happen. Phone confiscated? Parent rings up giving the school a mouthful, threatening to sue. Constant moaning and whinging about having to play sport, obsession with their phones and social media. Nothing to do at lunchtime because its 45 mins long and there are no sports clubs, so the girls sit on their phones judging everyone. God I dont miss it and not does dd.

That sounds like a horrible environment. It doesn’t match my children’s experience in state schools- although there were obviously groups within the schools who behaved like that. Just not their in their particular peer groups. Interestingly- and once again anecdotally- the private school boys and the state school girls in our area are inclined to be more sexually active and confident than the state school boys and private school girls. Not particularly relevant- but interesting none the less.

It was our only choice for state school, it's rated good, results are pretty good. I hoped dd would stay there for obvious financial reasons but a few weeks into her new school and she's like a different child.

I don’t make factual statements that I can’t back up by anecdote or data.

Oh my god, are you joking? You have literally said that your child’s results would have been exactly the same in a good private school as in the (by MN standards) “failing” state school they attended. When asked how you could possibly know that, especially since the private school would have been a far more conducive atmosphere for achievement, you replied “Easily”.

Do you even bother to read your own posts?

“When asked how you could possibly know that, especially since the private school would have been a far more conducive atmosphere for achievement, you replied “Easily”

@CendrillonSings - I know because my ds’s GCSE results were very good indeed. Excellent, in fact.

Backed up by anecdote..hilarious..

“a few weeks into her new school and she's like a different child”

I’m very pleased.

“Backed up by anecdote..hilarious.”
As, for example.
Poster “Private schools deal with bullying in a prompt and robust manner”
Me “Well [ancedote] shows that in these two well known private schools they don’t”
Obviously not data. But shows that previous blanket statement is not true.

What would I do? Well, in an I ideal world, I would make a condition of becoming an MP that you were not allowed to use private education or health care. In the real world, I would either remove charitable status from or apply VAT to private schools, and also increase the top rate of income tax by 5%. This would provide more money for education. Not being an educationalist, I don’t know what the best things to do to improve the state system would be- so I would establish a commission to find out and go from there.
I don’t know about OFSTED. I certainly wouldn’t abolish it, but I do think it needs reform. The format of inspections is, in my opinion, too rigid. But living I a wholly selective area and as the governor of a High School, I would say that wouldn’t I!

Tax should be increased across the board imo.

By a Standard level, I mean just enough GCSEs to get to the next level - to tick the box. To get everyone up to at least Maths & English GCSEs. To stay in some sort of ed until 18. So young people are employable. Our catchment school openly stated in the Spring just before we decided which way to go, after school offers, that they were taking away choice for GCSEs - reducing choice of options to go with the core subjects, so that ’they could focus effort on getting 5 or six good GCSEs for all students as that is what they need to get to the next stage’. That was the nail in the coffin, decision-wise for us. That’s not providing a good broad education, that’s just fulfilling the process to it’s minimum requirement.

People will rely on personal experience, as that is what they experience and is therefore truth to them. There is likely as much variation in independent schools as state schools. Our either/or options are polar opposites. I imagine if you live in catchment for a good state school, you would be happy with that, as would I if it were available to us. Beware the rumour mill - it’s often outdated and wrong.

Also, most parents would defend their school - it is a natural thing as we want to trust that we have made the right decision for our children’s future - and none of us have a crystal ball.

And -Boom- Bertrand - you live in a selective area? And how is that? Does it work well? Are there many independent schools thriving in your area? Did your DCs go to the comp or selective schools? Is that currently?

There is too much Private vs state here - that is way to generalising. There is great variation in both sectors. Most parents I know and discuss these things with - both sectors - went round to most schools available to them - for us, pretty much one - or two, if you were feeling lucky (although very few went to look at the Independents) and found differences in those schools.
Those that were looking at both sectors went for the school they thought would be the best fit for their child. It was more a school vs school, cost, logistics, friendships thing.

“they could focus effort on getting 5 or six good GCSEs for all students as that is what they need to get to the next stage”
Are you absolutely sure about this? Because a school doing this is going against education policy and will indubitably fail an OFSTED inspection. A brave decision for a head teacher and governing body to make.....

Oh yes. In black & white and digital forms on the school website. They are an Academy Trust now. This is what’s happening, Bertrand. They don’t only do 5 or 6 - there are six core subjects plus up to three options with that, so max of 8-9 GCSEs studied in stead of 9-10, but this is so they can stretch their resources to ensure all students get a decent batch of 5-6 passes - starting GCSE study in year 9 also, rather than focussing on yrs 10&11 alone. I hope you can forgive me then, for sending my very bright daughter elsewhere, independent or otherwise? This was the only state provision available to us and the attitude and focus goes against how we feel about education. With funding and student numbers as they are in our area, we felt the situation could only go one way.

There is definitely a shift to 3 year gcses. Which does narrow the curriculum a year early. My sons school also does 8 gcses not the 9 or 10 which i was offered. So again less breadth. Then, timetabling means certain obvious combinations cant happen. I feel quite sad how narrow the curriculumn gets. Aged just 12 my son will never have another art, music geography etc lesson again. (He is young in his year group)