In Defence of Private Schools

[Wayland1]

What do you think of Labour's private school plans?

Yesterday, Labour delegates voted for plans that would abolish private schools, with plans to remove charitable status and redistribute their endowments, investments and properties to the state sector. In addition, a new social justice commission would be tasked with integrating private schools into the state system.

This amounts to unlawful seizure of private property. Government, in a law-governed society, cannot simply seize private property in peacetime.

Also, you do not improve education by destroying what are some of the UK's best educational institutions. I agree that our education system isn't perfect, and that we may get frustrated at, for example, the excessive fees and running costs of most private schools nowadays. But in my opinion, the way to improve the situation is to have more choice and competition, not less.

What do you think?

“There are plenty of involved parents who take their kids to museums at state school?”

Of course there are. You appear to be deliberately missing the point.

I agree private school is an amazing experience, i dont agree that its a worthless one for middle class kids. They get plenty out of it believe me. Why not campaign to add this kind of cultural capital to state schools if you feel its so important? After all, us private school parents are supposed to do this magically when we are herded back to state. If you understand the importance of it, why not campaign for more of it at state school? Or raise money for a trip to London to see the Rosetta stone? Its free to get in so all they need is a coach trip and a packed lunch.

Of course there are. You appear to be deliberately missing the point

Do you have that sentence on cut and paste Bertrand?

I don't understand what point you are trying to make?

That whooshing sound? That was the point.......

There are plenty of involved parents who take their kids to museums at state school?

There are indeed, @Trewser, and I'm one of them. But that's not the point I was making, is it?

crossposted with Bertrand

Your point seems to be that there are some students who would benefit more than others from the "experiences" at private school. I don't doubt some children at private school hate it, and don't feel that they benefit at all, but the majority do. They benefit a lot. These aren't "experiences" that can be replicated in ANY home environment.

You are usually telling us all that state schools are as good if not better than independent education, so not sure what's changed your mind?

@Trewser I don't think I've commented before on private schools so not sure why you're saying I have

Sorry that was to bernard

“You are usually telling us all that state schools are as good if not better than independent education, so not sure what's changed your mind?”
No i’m not.

Ok, must have got that wrong. In that case, why not learn from the private school experience and campaign for more state schools to replicate it?

Because what the private schools have for that state schools don’t is money for extras.

Yes, extras that benefit the children who go there. They benefit them. They benefit them just as much as they'd benefit any other child. More probably, having seen the attitude towards sport and music from some of the kids at state school (and their parents).

It's the behaviour which is better bertrand. The fact that the schools can discipline properly and expel students. The classes aren't disruptive.

Even the much touted Finnish model started going downhill when they stopped teaching in a more old fashioned way.

You could add lacrosse and history of art a level to our local state school and it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference.

“Yes, extras that benefit the children who go there. They benefit them. They benefit them just as much as they'd benefit any other child“
The point is that most private school children will get those benefits anyway. All I am saying is that they are going to the children who will benefit from them least.

Morning all! What have I missed?

Oh yes - right then,
Achievement - yes it is absolutely about achievement, but of potential, not necessarily academic. It’s about breadth of experience and curriculum, engagement, developing as an individual. The state system used to offer vocational qualifications and technical colleges for vocational options better suited to quite a lot of the population. Now the Gvmnt have decided everyone has to fit through the same academic focus - 'sausages forced through to provide good employees/taxpayers’. That’s the limit of the ambition for the state system. If that doesn’t change there will always be demand for independent education.

Grammars - selection is a fantastic way of taking a group of similar students, navigating their way through a subject at an appropriate pace. No-one gets bored or left behind. Learning can be to a deeper and more meaningful level. I would prefer to see streaming on many subject levels (some are better at STEM, some languages, some art & creative etc) in a truly comprehensive system (single schools), but this would take large schools and mucho teaching staff so a much better level of funding than state has presently - but if this was possible, happy days.

Independent schools don’t just have ‘extras’ compared to the states around here - they are able to provide the basics that states are more constrained to provide, like streaming and subject teachers who are educated in their subjects, plus extras on top of that.

Behaviour - absolutely. Our single option state - kids watching porn on their phones going into school, propositioning younger students openly, swearing, girls feeling pressured to wear makeup and conform to a type from day 1. Our school - all bright and self-motivated students to whom learning is cool; individuality in school is supported and encouraged. Respect and trust between teachers & students. Behaviour dealt with using merits/demerits/the odd detention if serious. No isolation or zero tolerance. The students feel valued and trusted as a result. Respect between the sexes is evident and encouraged. The whole ethos is just completely different. Streaming on a few levels from the early part of yr7. Selection means they can take the students into higher level learning from day 1; streaming allows the super maths & physics brains to take off.

And our schools are roughly £15-18k per year, without boarding. £1million+ goes to bursaries.

My overall impression with this thread, is most people are agreeing that there is a hell of a lot wrong with the state system as it is currently. It is absolutely not fair that some kids get to get a better education than others - whether that be because of variation within the state system or opportunity to go independent. The key message for me is that the state system needs radically overhauling and improving. That would take a massive political will and a shedload or two of cash. Where will that come from? Abolishing the independent sector won’t achieve that. It’s a political red-herring.

Our single option state - kids watching porn on their phones going into school, propositioning younger students openly, swearing, girls feeling pressured to wear makeup and conform to a type from day 1 absolutely.

So private school kids don’t watch porn on their phones? Right......

I don't think girls wearing makeup is exclusive to state schools either!

DoubleTweenQueen I'm not sure about academic achievement but the behaviour you think is the sole preserve of state school children has been fully embraced by private school pupils round my way.

It’s extraordinary how rose tinted the spectacles of some private school supporters are. No bullying, no make up, no porn, no sexting, no drugs, no alcohol....

It’s extraordinary how rose tinted the spectacles of some private school supporters are. No bullying, no make up, no porn, no sexting, no drugs, no alcohol....

No, but they are both much rarer than in the state sector and likely to meet with harsh and rapid consequences, including expulsion.

A lot of private schools do an excellent job and provide a brilliant experience, obviously.