Private schools and parents’ occupation

[PlipPlop7clocks]

A friend is applying for highly competitive private secondary schools for her daughter in SW London. She has to put her occupation (she’s a doctor) on the application form. This really surprised her and me. Is that something that gets taken into account during the selection process?? If not, why do they ask? Thanks.

My friend earns less than she pays her nanny
A doctor's salary is less than a nanny's?

My friend earns less than she pays her nanny

How much is she paying her nanny??

@Soontobe60 yes, catchment of good schools is discriminating. We have one outstanding, several
good and a couple of not so great primary schools round here. House prices close to the outstanding school are over 100k (!!!!) higer than next to the not so great ones. close to the “good” ones still about 30k over average for the area. but most of the parents proudly declared that they would never pay for private education as the state schools are great...... a bit delusional as they paid ALOT to get into these schools...

It might also be for future fundraising opportunities if the parents have high incomes the school can identify individuals with a good capacity to support the school in addition to paying fees as well

To add some universities do this too

Universities ask this because there is a push on social mobility and widening participation. A parents education level and occupation can be a determining factor in whether someone applies to university, where they apply to and sometimes the subject they apply for.

@Benes - agreed

A nanny that works anti social hours costs a lot of money. My friend got over a grand a week for looking after 2 kids including 2 over nights a week. That was in 2010. But she regularly stayed later than arranged. Short notice. Did errands for the household etc. She was basically on call to them 24/7.

Asking occupation is simply a way to fill the quota for poor children in private school without overfilling it. The children should be judged solely on their academic aptitude and character but the reality is that a lot of working class kids are very bright and interesting people with varied experiences. If it was truly fair and children were only given a place based on their social and academic skills, some.private schools might be full of working class, non-white kids and that's not the point of them.

Husband is in risk management and says schools should be asking questions about source of funds to pay fees (which would include occupation) as part of their due diligence in respect of money laundering regs. Apparently NCA issued a warning last year that private schools needed to do more to ensure fees weren’t being paid with laundered money.

My 2 DS are at a top public boarding school, when they ask I just put housewife or SAHM. Totally not bothered. Never been an issue. They are both doing really well and got in based on their abilities not mine. DH puts company director.

I think the question is linked into the Anti Money Laundering regs as school fees are known to be one way to launder dirty money. We have also been asked to give the names of employers and how we intend to pay fees.

There was a piece in the FT about it last October.
www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/5a2ab2a4-b83b-11e8-b3ef-799c8613f4a1

Simply asking someone’s occupation does nothing for money laundering compliance.

I always thought this was more for careers advice. My BIL is a pilot so as soon as the school found out he was asked to come in and give a talk to (primary) students each year...

I really don’t think this is anything more than background profiling for the likes of ISI reporting etc, and no doubt marketing info and risk assessment too. I really do not think it forms the basis of any individual applicant’s scrutiny. I have put down my previous profession, as well as SAHM and volunteer...and neither has made any difference.

Schools will want to know whether DC require a bursary. They will also need to manage bursaries and expected income. A lot of schools have to fund bursaries from current fee income so having people who pay on time is vital. Not only that, some minor schools are not financially awash with money. They need their income so you could not have half a year group on bursaries whether they are the brightest DC or not. Schools are charities but also businesses. Therefore they do have to be diligent and not rack up bad debts. They use parental info as part of the process. It’s been a long standing question as far as I’m aware!

I know where my DDs went to school, detailed records were kept on likely donors from the parent body and alumni. They had dinners and all sorts of perks for them. They even had family trees for the richest! I was on the fund raising panel so I was aware of it. It was mostly for bursary funds.

Regarding the state admissions code, no parental income or practical support a parent might give the school can be part of the school admissions procedure. If this information is given to a state school prior to a place being allocated, then it could be used to influence places offered. That’s illegal. What parents offer afterwards in terms of money and help is a different thing. I cannot see any reason for any state school to know parental occupation before a place is offered. It could clearly be used illegally.

"Schools will want to know whether DC require a bursary. They will also need to manage bursaries and expected income"

You cannot know this from someone simply stating their occupation.

If one single parent is a SAHM with little income then they would want to know who is paying the fees if no other parent or grandparent is mentioned as the fee payer. If you are a SAHM, as I was, but DH has a stonking income, then of course they won’t care. In fact they would love to see you helping out with parental events at school

• or fundraising!

You will match up applications and bursary applications. Judgements will be made on the most needy. All the information is considered. Not parental job alone.

No state school should ever ask! That’s totally wrong and is open to abuse!

Our state schools ask 🤷🏼‍♀️

I wondered if it was to give them an idea of the kind of demographic of families who are in the school?

There are several reasons, I very much doubt that 'keeping out the proles' is one of them.

They like to get a rounded picture of their pupils and what sort of family background they come from. They may also want to show that they take children from a variety of social backgrounds, and that the parents are not all rich city types.

Very prestigious private school close to us that I considered for DD also ask this. From a friend whose DS started there a year or so earlier, she felt it was so they knew who to target for extra free help for the school. She worked part time in eduction at the time & the pressure to give up her free time to help out in x,y,z, at the school was relentless. She was relieved when her DS hated the school & wanted to move. I heard the same from 2 other parents of kids there too

Banjodancer and Bluntness100
My friend takes home £1600 a month as she works 50% of a full time rota (24 hours a week instead of 48). She pays her nanny £11 an hour which is approximately £2000 a month for the 3 days a week that she works. She can’t afford to work 60, 80 or 100% because of the increasing nanny costs. I.e., she’s currently £400 out of pocket but if she worked full time she’d be £800 out of pocket. When her children are both at school full time then the costs will drop massively.

TonTonMacoute: most private schools run on fee income money. They offer bursaries to DC from a wider social background. They really, really do not care about wider social backgrounds of all DC! The top preps wouldn’t expect people from wider social backgrounds to even apply. It is very clear in many schools that they need more money then just fees. They need donors. They don’t need hoards of parents just scraping the fees together and defaulting if they don’t get the overtime!

I have been clear about why state schools should not ask before places are offered. There is room for illegal use of the info in the admissions process. This is doubly important if the school is its own admissions authority. It could not be used as a tie breaker for example, behind closed Church doors! If they ask later, it doesn’t matter.

£1600 a month is very low for 50% hours as a Doctor. I took home that amount on 50% in local government management 25 years ago! She must be just out of training! That a salary of around £24,000 and £19 per hour which seems low.

I don't know whether the forms have changed, as i haven't had one in 13 years - but my NHS maternity form had a big box for occupation right on the front of it (i think it hadone for both mine and my DH, from memory)! Couldn't work out why it was any of the NHS's business. Don't think they were planning to tap me for money (or at least I hope not, this was not a private hospital, I was just looking for a standard NHS service). Dithered about whether or not to put "solicitor" or "lawyer", and whether it would make them more careful or overly cautious (even though I never did that kind of law). Sometimes people seem just to ask!