State v Private School

[Jimmyjimjam1]

Hello fellow Mumsnetters, I think I need to phone a friend. My two children currently attend a very good state school, my daughter is doing really well, howver my son has fallen into a group of friends that don't see doing well academically as being very 'cool', he is a clever boy and I feel that if this continues, it will hold him back, the children have just come to the end of year 8. As my daughter is musical, there has been an unexpected opportunity for them both to possibly attend a good private school, they have to sit the test yet, but it is looking promising. I don't have a private school background and financially it would be a very big commitment for us. I would really like to know anyones views on whether private school is worth the investment who may have found themselves in a similar situation - really I guess it is my son who would need it more, but I have heard that boys can tend to knuckle down in year 9 when the GCSE syllabus starts? Many thanks for any thoughts.

Yes, it’s worth the investment.

If I were you, I'd go private. We're in a vg state school, lovely friends, great work ethic etc etc, but if DS fell in with a bad lot or started mucking around, I'd go private straight away.

It's worth it if you can afford it until 18 even if circumstances change.

We moved both DCs from good state schools to private schools for secondary.
DD has absolutely blossomed. DS is able but has a tendency to laziness and getting into minor trouble. He HAS got into trouble at his new school but the way the school has handled it makes us believe that it's been nipped in the bud and DS has been given guidance to stop it happening again, which I really don't think would have been the case in the local comp; they are much more concerned with crowd control, using punitive punishments.

Also, in DS's school, academic standards and expectations are high, so DS knows he'll stand out for all the wrong reasons if he doesn't do well.

Depends on the child. Bright, but lazy, wants to fit in whatever it is cool - yes. Self motivated, studious, conscientious, not fussed about being in the 'cool' gang - not necessarily, but dependant on extra curricular interests. Have experience of both!

Depends if there are any other state options.

DS is at a SS state grammar. Incredibly good behaviour and hardworking peer group. Don't assume it's a state/private thing.

Totally depends on the schools. One of the independents near to me has a problem with drugs for example. In another, children are getting away with poor behaviour as their parents are extremely rich and contributing to school buildings etc. Be aware that a music scholarship may only be a token amount. Secondary school fees in London are 20K plus per child plus trips, uniform etc.

There was a study 10 years ago private school is worth 2 extra A levels. However once kids go to university state school children drop out far less than private and can do better as private school pupils are use to the perfect learning environment and being spoon fed. I think this is why in Scotland if you went to a state school you are accepted in to university on less qualifications than private schools pupils. Remember private school are often filled with complete dorks. My cousin went to the local rough state school and graduated from Cambridge.

soapona, is your statement that "private schools are often filled with complete dorks" a fact, or purely your opinion?

Of course bright, motivated kids can do well at rubbish state schools, as your cousin did, but the OP isn't asking that.
State vs private vs grammar will always come down to the strengths of the individual school : a good state school will trump a poor private school; a good private school will trump a rubbish state school.
In our case, our local state secondary gets excellent inspection reports and excellent exam results BUT the way they get them wasn't what we wanted for our DCs and the pastoral care there is awful.

I thought that research about universities and state/private education have been largely accepted as not what it seems?

Also have worked in both sectors I saw “spoon feeding” in both.

Also have worked in both sectors I saw “spoon feeding” in both.

This is true of my experience too.

Whether private education is ‘worth it’ really depends on your personal circumstances. Personally, I’d prefer to go private but wouldn’t give up a decent lifestyle to do it at all costs and have to watch every penny.

Soapona, the reason you get into uni with lower grades from a state school is because attainment is lower. When you compare top super selective state school attainment with top indie attainment, the latter is higher.

We have given up certain aspects of our lifestyle to afford private school for our dc and to me it’s been completely worth it. We still have a good life style but with some changes such as less holidays, takeaways etc and drive fairly crap cars. We are definitely one of the least well off families at my dcs’ schools!
But if I couldn’t afford my basics such as bills, food or couldn’t have any treats at all then it wouldn’t be worth it.

My friend's son got heavily involved with "the wrong crowd" at the private school they moved him to, including some pretty heavy drug use. I suspect kids like this exist in all sorts of schools.

What do your kids think of the idea? If your son doesn't want to move what reason are you going to give him? Telling him that he needs to be taken away from his friends probably isn't going to go down well and he won't work well at his new school if he resents being there.

Is it worth having a chat with his current class tutor or HOY? Are there any concerns that his work is falling off? How do they see his current predictions?

Children don't always copy their peer groups. DD's friends are all high achieving academic girls - sadly it hasn't had much effect on her own minimalist approach to work!

It is not whether a private school is better than a state school, as this is definitely not the case. There are good state schools and rubbish private ones. It is whether the private school you are considering is a good fit for your children. It may fit your daughter and not your son...

If you were choosing an ideal school for your son, what would it be like? Does the new school cover more than 75% of your ideal. What is a brilliant school for one child is hell for another. This applies to the so-called best schools in the country as well as the worst. It is rare for a truly bad private school to survive, but a brilliant school may be bad for an individual child.

Couldn't agree more with the previous poster. Top private school may not be brilliant for all children. My friend sent 2 DS to one of the top boarding schools in the country. One thrived - captain of the rugby team etc., the other hated it and got into drugs as an escape. Consequently they send DS3 to state school!

It really down to how good is that private school. I think OP need doing more research into the school itself.

One thing need to be think about is about the friend group. Even in private school, there are different groups, some groups are hard working, high achieving, some are less so. Especially , some may take drugs.

How can you make sure that DS find a good group after switch school?

Research the school, take your children for a visit and see if they like the look of it. Good pastoral care is really important, not just the academic side.

Totally disagree with the spoon feeding comment and the statistic mentioned on private school pupils dropping out far more than state! Where on earth has that come from?? My daughter went private for secondary, and the strong sense of independence they fostered in her, with juggling studying, extra curricular, part time work and university applications, was a real breath of fresh air, compared to other family members who had attended the local state schools and either dropped out before A levels...or part way through the 2nd year. No comparison whatsoever. While a lot of her state peers have struggled with first year at her RG uni, she has finished with an all round first. Best investment we ever made.

My 7 year old go to Private, only changed them last year. My LG would do well wherever she want, because she wants to learn.
My LB is very easily distracted and with a class size of 34, he was often left to act up and play the fool.
The new school has a class size of 11 and he's like a different child. The school are fantastic with him, showing you don't have to be the fool to make friends.

The opportunities they have had just in the last year alone, has seen a huge transformation in them both and for the better.

Don't get me wrong, I have to work hard and from year 3, it'll wipe out nearly half my wages per month, but I feel it's money well spent.
My only concern is senior school because unless they win scholarships I'm sure I can afford it.

Id go state. My neighbours daughter has got all grade 9s and an A+ in Art and A+ in product design at a local state school and is happy and grounded. What's not to like? Equally another friend is at a top independent and was dealing at 15, has tried every different drug under the sun by 18 and has tried to kill himself etc. I think a good State school is fantastic and you mix with every one not just privileged kids.

Depends on the school, some children need small class sizes, to be surrounded by clever, engaged children (at very selective indies). Also, it's not all about grades. All the extra curricular, clubs after school, pastoral care etc

Others have already said it choose the school that suits your children. They may not suit the same school. Perhaps if your son is tending to be led into trouble choose a school with a greater level of pastoral care, where focus is on the child's development of character over results.

If you have private options around you visit each and read about their aims.

I personally prefer private but I've never experienced state over visiting some for our children.

In general private schools have higher funds, so better facilities, better teacher / pupil ratios. We also find that 100 percent of parents believe in education, and one way or other encourage their children to enjoy learning. I'm not sure that is the same in all state schools, but perhaps it is.