Massive decline in English A-level take-up thanks to Gove reforms

[noblegiraffe]

One for @piggywaspushed who warned of this.

Take-up of English A-levels has declined massively since 2016. There has also been a decrease in the take-up of Maths and Further Maths A-levels after years of steady increases (and the country cannot afford this).

Good job everyone. Well done.

Full figures here: assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/803906/Provisional_entries_for_GCSE__AS_and_A_level_summer_2019_exam_series.pdf

Dd is taking English Lit Alevel. She wasn’t going to as she said she didn’t like writing about writing but in the end she decided that she really had a flair for essay subjects rather than maths or science.

She wanted to do Language but it’s not offered at her school her other subject is RS/Philosophy & a musical theatre diploma).

She is on the whole enjoying it apart from one of her texts which she finds very difficult to get to grips with.

How would today’s DC have fared with O level English Lit? They just would not have coped at all. We did Chaucer, Shakespeare and George Eliot! We did numerous Shakespeare plays before we got onto Macbeth for O level. We didn’t do anything remotely modern! There should perhaps be higher a lower specifications if some DC cannot manage the more challenging literature. Perhaps GCSE on gaming would be better?

DS1 is doing A levels in English literature, philosophy and psychology. When he first chose A level options they were computer science, Maths, biology and psychology. He changed his mind over the summer. He loves his A level subjects and it's challenging but he really enjoys English. He reads a lot but he think critically about what he reads. He's like me. It's stood me in very good stead careers-wise. (It also means I can read a political slogan on the side of a bus and know I'm being played. Mind you, that's the reason everyone should do media studies!).

Just to even things out a bit for the poster who says the smart kids pick Triple Science. Not my DS (bless his cottons), he decided to do Triple because there is one unit in physics on space that is not on the double.

To be honest, I was just so proud that he even looked at the curriculam as that's the most effort he's put into anything in 3 years of high school 😠

The top 10 degrees for earnings 5 years after graduating, according to the Institute for Fiscal Studies are:

Medicine and Dentistry, Economics, Maths, Vet Science, Engineering and Technology, Architecture, Computer Science, MFL, Law, Business.

History, Education, English and Psychology are in the bottom 10. Nursing comes higher than Education, History and English. The report makes it very clear that university attended is key for many subjects. So any DC wanting bottom ten, aim high!

How would today’s DC have fared with O level English Lit?

But back in the olden days only the really bright kids took O-level. There was a lower specification back then.

@IHeartKingThistle totally agree. English has always been my thing but this new approach is grotesque

I am finding this a bit depressing

If it’s any consolation, piggy my DH spotted a major plot twist in Lucifer that we’re watching on Prime, 10 episodes before the reveal. He thought it was obvious, and thanked his A-level in English Lit.

he can have one of my special animal stamps

I always do that, too. It's like second sight!

I suspect that the changing ethnic and sociology-economic mix of pupils may be another reason why there is a change in the take up of certain subjects.

A couple of years ago I was talking to a HoD of an arts subject in a very mixed school in central London. He said that many BME and working class parents were ambitious for their children and actively discouraged them from studying arts subjects, instead encouraging them into STEM subjects, economics and business which they thought would give them a better chance of getting a good job.

I wanted my children to be able to choose subjects they enjoyed and were good at, but perhaps some parents feel that is a luxury. Both of my children did English A level, one also did drama and the other did music, but those subjects do have a bit of a white middle class feel about them and it's not difficult to see that some parents would think it was a waste of time for their children to study poetry, film, music, drama etc.

Sorry. 'Sociology-economic' should say socio-economic !

I had to do a relatively modern novel for O level Eng Lit in 1977. Brighton Rock. I loathed it and much preferred the Shakespeare and Chaucer.

Nothing more modern than Dickens for A level though.

We did Chaucer

My ds g
Has just do e Chaucer in yr8. It was hard. I did o'level, a'level and old s' level english

S levels - that takes me back. I did S levels in chemistry and physics.

They were hard.

noble,

We knew about this decline didn't we? The students taking A levels this year were the first ones to take the new GCSE 1-9 papers in maths and English.

This put quite a few off further study.

I have heard that numbers taking maths are up in the year below (current Y12, A levels in 2020). Is that your experience?

English was not in its first year of the new GCSEs. This is its third year.

Sorry, frendo, misread your post. I do think the current year 13 felt a little like guinea pigs in terms of GCSE. But the decline in numbers at A Level began before that.

I don't disagree that parental influence may play a part but I just find the messaging behind it so sad. Learning for the love of learning and all that.

I think the setting up of specialist maths schools in areas of London, significantly targeted at certain groups may be a factor : but that is a drop in the ocean in terms of entries really.

Job cuts, redundancies and lack of well paid jobs, especially in the area I live in make getting a "hobby" degree a bit of an unaffordable and impractical luxury. Learning for the sake of learning is for people who maybe don't feel the pressure to get into a well paid career.

Although I live on the naice side of the nearest town, generally the whole area is regarded as quite poor and depressed. Virtually the whole county votes Labour.

All mine really enjoyed poetry. A few girls at dds school aren't taking English Lit A level - they are doing much more financially rewarding subjects such as economics, mandarin, maths - but they are studying poetry on the side with a tutor!! Seems a good way to go. Sadly dd is very keen on fusty dry essay subjects so will no doubt end up living in a garret.

Is there a risk that this encouragement towards STEM subjects might backfire at some point in the future though? I suspect there is.

I don't think JK Rowling lives in a garret!

Need to find some highly paid English grads pronto!

Alexander Armstrong? Help me out here people!

I didn't feel pressured to go into a well paid career at all. But that may be my family background as we are all public servants. if anything, the pressure is to do something that serves society, not oneself (I realise these aren't always mutually exclusive).

DS1 does talk about pay occasionally (going to uni this year) but is not finance driven at all. Fairly sure DS2 will do what you call a hobby degree ( I did note your speech marks, mind). I will be honest here, and I am sure you don't mean it, but that term is a bit offensive. My degree wasn't a hobby and my job certainly isn't ! Peace and love!

There are so many transferable skills in an English or humanities degree. I work in a profession which attracts a lot of STEM graduates, maths in particular, but actually what we need is not people who can do the maths but people who can communicate what the figures mean in a clear and concise way to people who are not able to do this for themselves. University stem degrees do not largely teach or encourage these skills , they are , quite rightly , often about the pure science . The numbers of times I have received a blank look from a maths graduate or similar when I say ‘but what does that mean’ what is the significance of these numbers, and I don’t mean statistically, to the client’

A good English degree or history or classics etc teaches critical thinking skills , it teaches you how to evaluate sources, how to formulate an argument , how to master vast amounts of information and distill them into a paragraph/ sentence / 1000 words. In the top universities arts subjects put an emphasis on oral skills, thinking on your feet , defending your argument etc All these skills are hugely useful in the modern world.

Of course we need people to study STEM subjects but we also need arts graduates as well .

DH teaches on a theatre degree course. Many of the graduates have obtained jobs before they have even graduated. Cruise ships are popular. One in particular has a starting salary that is eye watering.

I know many, many arts graduates who are in good, well paid careers. Some related to their subject, others not.

Is there a risk that this encouragement towards STEM subjects might backfire at some point in the future though?

I don't think so. The future is all about technology, robotics, etc. and with that comes all kinds of new industries and careers. The likes of cyber security, machine learning etc are the next big thing and there's a massive shortage of people with the skills to do those jobs.

The more people we have with excellent STEM skills, the better, if we are to compete in the modern world against other countries. We, as a country, can't just continue living beyond our means and forever borrow money from other countries to keep our standards of living - the time comes when we have to stand on our own two feet again - it's becoming blatantly obvious we can't survive just with a service economy, so we have to stake our claim in the manufacturing and design industries of the future.

Of course, there'll always be a place for the classics, arts, law, history, literature, music, etc., but they aren't going to bring home the bacon in a competitive world economy. It's all a matter of balance.

Of course we need people to study STEM subjects but we also need arts graduates as well .

I think your post argues eloquently for more STEM grads who are also taught effective communication skills. Which is a very different thing than English lit.

To be sure, we do need good arts grads. For one thing, the 'creative arts' (including theatre, literature at all levels from the highest) are hugely important sectors. That requires real developed and supported talents.

But there are businesses which have been ruined by having 'amateur' management. DH had the misfortune to work in a business headed by an impressive sounding Cambridge literature grad who knew fuck all chemistry - didn't know what he didn't know - and therefore made disastrous decisions. He's come across many city 'analysts' totally unqualified to understand science-based companies. And then there's politicians...