Ban the Booths

[PlayNtag]

banthebooths.co.uk/

Has anybody's school responded well to petitions against this?

If parents are so outraged at their misbehaving children being removed from class and put in a room where the desks have dividers, then they should home school them. Take some responsibility for your own progeny.

I am outraged at the hundreds of hours of education my DC have missed out on because of the one or two kids who cba studying, just disrupt the class, waste the teachers time, whilst ignoring the rules and not doing their homework.

I remember all the library desks at my Uni had dividers, it was a great way to study without being distracted by other students. Perhaps all the well behaved children should be allowed desk dividers. Then remove the badly behaved children to an 'open' bear pit room & see how their parents like it then.

If it's not desks with dividers can someone provide a link to what they mean and which schools use the "confinement booths" which are not desks with dividers?
It is desks with dividers. Just when lots of people from a range of teaching backgrounds and pedagogical positions pointed how stupid and ideologically driven this campaign was, suddenly the likes of Paul Dix invented 'deep confinement booths' in some daft attempt to make people think kids are being slung in the chokey like something from Matilda.

They're just desk dividers to stop all the twits who've been ruining other people's learning by being disruptive and defiant making contact with each other, disrupting the isolation room and gives them support to focus. Most students who end up in isolation don't want to be excluded but for some students once they've got a reputation with peers they don't want to lose face. Without dividers they risk losing face by choosing to ignore their mates and make better choices. With dividers they get on with their work, usually get praised for getting more done than they have in recent lessons and they know the rules of the room so accept it as part of isolation (complete with moan afterwards about the member of staff just to keep up appearances).

Walkingdeadfangirl I agree. I had too much of my own education wasted at times because of bratty disruptive types who felt their desire to seem big and cool was more important than everyone else learning. The worst ones were the ones who'd be rude to staff and then goad them saying 'my mum says ... you can't give me a detention because my dad says... i was only asking a question. My mum's going yo get you sacked when I tell her you sent me out for not having my shirt tucked in'.
On one occasion the whole class had to write a statement because the teacher was being investigated. They were a brilliant teacher but some brat didn't like being told rules applied to them so lied about them and in some MN style arrived fuming and raging demanding to see the head. ... funnily enough the whole class backed the teacher.

I am outraged at the hundreds of hours of education my DC have missed out on because of the one or two kids who cba studying, just disrupt the class, waste the teachers time, whilst ignoring the rules and not doing their homework. My kids went to a school where a child struggled - thankfully we left after 3 years but it took the school 4 years to realise that the way they were treating this kid was not working - they demanded his complete obedience under all circumstances and it didn't work - they teachers were re-trained but imo it was too late - the kids was fucked up. My sil work with kids who struggle to fit into mainstream school - the teachers are determined to control these kids and after years of trying and failing they contact her but they refuse to take her advice because the teachers take the control they have over kids personally - it starts with how dare you say this to me. The teachers make it personal. But they are always right and so they are reluctant to take advice. I know I'll get a slating for this but I know teachers are not taught to deal with discipline issues, they muddle through - I know that my kids have mentioned numerous times how the teacher struggles to deal with certain kids and they struggle to learn - I complain and no one responds and the teacher leaves - they never seen to get help or support...I just think it's no bloody wonder kids are the way they are - teachers poke sticks at them by pulling them up on shit like uniform and there is no support for the things that matter like classroom discipline!

So no direct experience of teaching yourself, National? Thanks for your input.

NationalAnthem

teachers poke sticks at them by pulling them up on shit like uniform and there is no support for the things that matter like classroom discipline!

The irony is that you don't see that its the same thing, whilst moaning that teachers want "control" of the class.

@BoneyBackJefferson A teacher who took a child who was struggling and humiliated that child in front of the class about his behaviour, who blamed his parents for not disciplining their child - he just assumed his parents were over indulgent - that child had issues and he continues to, but the school just assumed his parents were crap! My SIL tell many stories about how teachers fail to deal with kids and most of it revolves around teachers demanding control and these kids cannot cope with that - their diagnosis gives them an out but many teens cannot cope with the controlling nature of adults...we squeeze they all into the same box and we expect them all to behave the same way and we call them broken when the don't. Again I say, my kids are fine they cope with the system but I see too many who struggle and too many teachers who are too rigid - most probably it's not way they wanted to do things but time and league tables are against them.

@noblegiraffe I've read many of your posts and I believe you to be an excellent teacher but picking in a child's untucked shirt on the way into a class is just stupid - especially when you follow on with what am I going to do if they refuse to comply? I can't believe you never thought why did I bring the shirt tucking in the first place - a kids misses out on you teaching over something so utterly pointless, you disappointed me by your over controlling pettiness.

Our isolation room, is just that a room. Better spaced out desks, as only used for a small number, kids work in silence generally. I really don’t know what people objecting are picturing. The ‘isolation booth’ is a desk in a room- it may have sides. There is less going on in there, that’s the point. But probably not too different from when kids work in silence for an extended period of time, in a class. Less or no social time, in school (kids spend about 20% of time in a week in school) don’t get to wander at change of lessons. Often these placements are short term, or if longer, inter seeded with other things.
It is not where Hannibal Lectur was kept, nor is it 24/7

I can't believe you never thought why did I bring the shirt tucking in the first place

Oh that’s right, I’ve been doing this for 14 years and have never once considered whether it was pointless

Or perhaps I’ve been doing it for 14 years because I actually find it useful? It’s not about the shirt, I don’t give a toss about shirts. It’s about standing at the threshold of my classroom and saying ‘you’re not coming into my space until you meet my expectations’. It’s a routine and a reminder, creating a mindset. Do it enough at the start, and they’ll come up the stairs towards my classroom and tuck their shirt in without me saying a word. They know the rules, and they know I’m in charge of my room, which makes classroom discipline a damn sight easier once we’ve had an orderly entry (of which tucking in shirts is a part).

Or y’know, they could just all pile in chaotically?

As I said upthread, if a kid is going to stand at the door and refuse to tuck their shirt in, then you’re going to have problems inside the classroom too. It’s not the request to tuck the shirt in that’s the problem there.

As always, noble you have said everything I agree with.

It's not about the shirt.

NationalAnthem
So you're yet another poster who thinks expectations should be set at the threshold where the most defiant students might possibly consider following those rules.

Students push uniform. Twas ever thus. A polite and friendly reminder is all that is needed for most students (including those with additional needs and not including those who already have adjustments made because people on these topics love pretending that defiance isn't defiance).

The student who refuses to tuck their shirt in and argues back, and shouts across the room is also the same student who thinks any instruction is optional. And then you get the snake oil consultants and 'cool teachers' saying 'oh they're great for me... I lower the bar for them and we spend 10 minutes having a chat to see why they might not feel like writing the date'. It doesnt matter what is happening to everyone else and the 29 kids who want to learn. If Danny wants his shirt untucked and his hoodie on and to sit next to his mates, wear headphones during the teaching input and refuse simple instructions then that's not defiance, you just shouldn't have provoked him by expecting him to follow the rules that every other child follows. Expecting students to follow rules is silly because everyonr knows that you shouldn't uphold those standards in case someone doesn't fancy it. What he needs is to ruin the lesson for 20 minutes before a suitably indoctrinated member of SLT or the pastoral team takes him for a hot chocolate to discuss how the class teacher needs to get him more before expecting reasonable conduct. Then having had a chat (slagging session) with a cool staff member he is brought back to the lesson with 10 mins to go full of himself telling everyone how much he's complained about the teacher in front of him.

And then after this happening for years and email goes out in y11 where SLT want Danny to be prioritised in intervention that he doesn't want to be in and will trash as in last term's intervention he mocked his peers for wanting to learn, but it's important we do all we can for Danny because his mum says he really needs a 5 to get on his college course.

@noblegiraffe - I do not agree with you - I get what you are doing and I thing the majority of kids can comply but I worry about the ones that can't and not just for the disruption they cause in the classroom but when they are removed they miss out, you let them down by your stupidly high bar.

A kid tucking their shirt in when asked is a stupidly high bar?

@NationalAnthem

Your SiL tells you stories, so its hearsay from one school.

You say we, and I see, but you don't its all form a second hand source.

And to preempt the usual response I don't claim that all teachers are great and are good, but at the same time I'm not going to rely on hearsay from a person that could do something other than stand there and watch.

i’m not doing something you’ve been asked to do is a particularly high bar. It seems like the lowest possible bar you’d expect for the vast majority of children.

NationalAnthem
Ban the booths isn't about SEND or reasonable adjustments at all. It was a reasonably recent addition to a campaign thay is ideologically motivated by people who think it is wrong for teachers to expect basic, polite conduct in the classroom and that any rule breaking is a sign the teacher needs to be more engaging, more entertaining, more cool, more fun, lower their standards until the students are on side.

There have been poor and terrible practices in some schools. They're not reasons to support an ideological war on basic behaviour standards driven by people who have their own snake oil to sell.

If anything, a calm and orderly classroom that is fair and consistent is actually really good SEND practice. It's not exclusionary. What s worse for some SEND needs is inconsistency, not knowing where they stand with an adult, change in routines, total lack of fairness regarding sanction application.

I worry about the ones that can't and not just for the disruption they cause in the classroom but when they are removed they miss out

So better every child misses out on learning than just the one causing the disruption? Oh dear.

Where do you draw the line?

Do you allow children to walk around during lessons because they cant sit still? Do do allow them to apply make up in class because they have body image 'issues'. Do you allow them to have a kip because they had a late night? Is homework optional because they have a very hungry dog? Do you allow them to post on social media in lessons because they have 'anxiety'?

Where do you draw the line, if not at the school uniform? #anarchy

NationalAnthem you are clueless.