Help! Surbiton vs Tiffin

[thuff]

Keen to hear impressions of Tiffin girls. We have visited Surbiton, but not Tiffin - and now we have to decide between them

@teddtess... yes we have the choice but the financial side will be a huge stretch and i can’t k is for certain if we can manage fees all the way thru to gcse let alone a levels.
If the pastoral support is good at Tiffin then that would be the ideal option.
And I’m just trying to gauge this by asking.
I have no doubt that Tiffin is full of bright hardworking girls... sorry if my posts suggested that I didn’t think this was the case.

GrapefruitAreNotTheOnlyFruits tiffin got the same gcse results as SHS. I don't know where you got that Tiffin got the highest results in the country from. The OP is looking at both private and at Tiffin and there are literally dozens of schools that got better results than Tiffin. My point is that considering the extraordinarily hard entrance process, Tiffin does not do remarkably well. The girls that get places must be at least if not much brighter as a cohort than girls at GHS or SHS or PHS and these schools do routinely better or the same as Tiffin. So they are clearly NOT adding value and there are NOT getting as much out if their girls as these other schools are.

Actually I correct myself, tiffin did get better GCSE scores that SHS as it should due to the cohort but tiffin was below GHS, LEH, and about 25 other schools.

I went to WHS prior to Tiffin and I must say the difference in pastoral care really surprised me. There were a few girls in my year who had some quite major difficulties (from serious family breakdown to injury and having to takes months off) and the school really didn't come off well at all in how they helped (or didn't)

Being at the top of SHS as she most probably will may result in a better sense of self confidence than potentially being middle of the road at Tiffin.

Talktoo, the independent schools have been taking international gcses.

If you want to compare independent and state you have to look at A levels.

If you compare Tiffin Girls school to other state schools then it is usually in the top couple for GCSE results.

It also has a very high value added score where KS2 sats are compared with GCSE scores. Again this is a measure that only really works for state schools.

I feel that I need to correct your posts as the information you are giving is basically factually incorrect so it would be a shame if anyone relied on it for making decisions about school choices.

In terms of pastoral care no issues so far that I have needed help with so I can't comment.

Not being the best at everything, my DD isn't concerned, she likes the fact the other girls are quite academic and they don't have to spend ages repeating simple things as they did at primary. But other children might react differently.

There is definitely lots of non academic stuff going on. Lots of celebrating different events like international women's day and raising money for a school in Nepal as well the extra curricular activities I mentioned earlier l.

A thought OP. If she's so bright she got a Tiffin place with little or no tutoring, is it worth perhaps having a conversation with SHS to see if there's any wriggle room for a bursary?

If money isn't part of the decision making equation then do forgive me.

I'd also factor in location. Tiffin Girls is a devil to get to unless you live in Ham or that bit of Kingston.

We made a similar decision in 2009 re SHS and Lady Margaret. SHS was more of a backstop then. We decided there wasn't £10k difference between the two and opted for LMS. Worst decision we ever made and dd was moved to Notre Dame at the end of Y8 (SHS had no places then).

DD would not have got into Tiffin and PHS turned her down. L

I think it's a shame you can't visit Tiffin Girls during working hours. My DD has a place at Nonsuch Grammar and they invited stage two successful candidates to look round in the day. This and a very clear emphasis on pastoral care tipped us towards Nonsuch rather than Tiffin.

Interesting isn't it memeyou. We looked at Nonsuch for 6th form and thought the vibe was so awful we left before the talk.

Different schools suit different children but we picked up the same "brutishness" that prevailed at LMS and indicated a school on the skids. Was 4 years ago now and funnily enough the Nonsuch head was ousted the same tear we looked at it.

My daughter went to Tiffin and it was perfect for her. Tiffin were then taking the top scorers so I don't know that the choice will be yours necessarily.

All this nonsense about tiffin just selecting good girls and therefore not adding value - that’s what all the private schools do!

Op - save your money go to tiffin. With the £100k plus you’ll save you could book her a weekly counselling /coaching session if you were worried about pastoral care, and a private sports lesson, and go on lovely holidays to relax and still have ££££ change.

Grapefruits - the reason private schools don’t do the same tests as the state schools is so they can’t be compared!

Hmm. DD got A* GCSE French. She started A'Level French at a school where the others had done IGCE French and was so far behind she dropped it. Not so sure about the argument that IGCEs aren't of such a high standard tbh.

Igcses are just less course work. So might better for the learning by rote crowd. However I went to oxford - all of the kids who had gone to the top private schools (Eton etc) struggled a bit at driving their own learning. They were used to being spoon fed - even to the extent they would be given printed notes of the class after every class at a level. They didn’t know how to do long projects or work on without constant involvement of the tutors.

The reason private schools do igcses is 1. So they can’t be compared in league tables with state schools and 2. Because a lot of the students are international

@Redskyandrainbows67 - I'm sorry but that's rubbish.

The reason independent schools have historically done IGCSEs is because they were considered a more rigorous exam that GCSEs. Now that GCSEs have been reformed the independent schools are considering whether to switch over. Many independent schools wanted to avoid the GCSEs in the couple of years when switch over happened. Hence my year 12 DS has a mix of the two exams.

Considered a more rigorous exam by the private schools who set their own agenda to promote them!

You have really fallen for the expensive marketing and parent pandering haven’t you?

Redsky DS went to a top school and took a first from Oxford. His friends didn't have too many problems. Neither were they ever kids - as children or young adults.

@ohtheroses maybe they had been taught French better? It would be easy with good teaching and small groups to go well past GCSE level by 16 I think.

Anyway there seems to be some debate about the issue:
www.google.com/amp/s/schoolsweek.co.uk/study-suggests-igcses-are-easier-than-reformed-gcses/amp/

I still think you are better off comparing A level results between independents and state as at least it is the same qualification.

My only caveat at 11 is how many of the children will be allowed to carry on to the sixth form?

Personally I don't think the exact ranking in terms of exam results is very important though. I think it's obvious that TGS is academically strong and people will make their decisions based on other factors.

Why weren’t they ever kids?

I took a first from Oxford too. State all the way. My parents saved £250k by my calculations.

Hi, thanks to all for your comments. I took my DD to Tiffin today, just to walk around. When we got there they were hosting a regional netball tournament. We were able to poke around, and to talk to teachers and coaches. It made a HUGE difference in our thinking. My DD said afterward that she’s made her decision - Tiffin it is. Thanks all for the thoughts and advice!!

If you took a first from Oxford Redsky you shouldn't have to ask unless of course you are being ironic.

Glad you made your decision. I am sure she will have a great time.

That sounds brilliant Thuff. How lucky to have a chance to bump into staff there.
Glad you’re sorted and hope your daughter is very happy at senior school.

Thanks from me too, for all the replies.

Redsky - although you have made some good points about why to choose Tiffin you are talking nonsense about IGCSEs. Tiffin used to sit IGCSEs for maths and sciences because they were better preparation for A levels before they were forced to stop, as did many other grammar schools in this area.

Before they were reformed some GCSEs were far too easy , particularly languages. DS1 sat 2 IGCSE languages and a GCSE challenge language which he completed in a year. He got A*s in them all despite barely knowing the challenge language, he was actually shocked and angry at the difference between the two exams. But, by making GCSE languages so much easier all that happened is that the jump to A level became too high and ohtheroses story is a very familiar one, hence the huge drop in the numbers sitting langauge A levels.

The article you have linked to compares the new reformed GCSEs with the old IGCSEs, the new 9-1 IGCSE only starts from this year. It is comparing an apple to a pear. But what is interesting is that the old IGCSE is actually very close to the new reformed GCSEs which is hardly surprising as they are modelled on them. I suspect it may move the other way again after this year but most British Indy schools are moving to GCSEs as they are happer with the new format.

I sometimes suspect that articles like this that appear in TES or The Guardian are planted by the government to distract teachers. They do not hold up to the smallest amount of investigation but bashing private schools gives teachers something else to be angry about and the government gets some respite.

OP - I am glad your DD liked Tiffin. I have only ever known very bright girls go there and they have all been very happy.