Am I being too hard on dd (year 10)?

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Dd is in year ten and very bright, she is predicted level 8’s and 3 level 9’s in GCSE, she wants to do A levels in business and computing as well as English literature and then go to a good uni.

Over the last year she has lost interest in maths, says they are giving her work she can’t do and is getting in a right flap, her target for maths is a 8 and she’s struggling with some of the tests she has been given, yesterday she messed up on a test and now has to go to “catch up sessions”, she’s not happy but I feel she needs to go and needs to do extra maths to hit her target, she got a bit shirty with me and said it was impossible to get a level 8 and she can’t be bothered to do extra lessons at lunch time, says she doesn’t need maths as she doesn’t want to take it as a A level. I explained that her maths resault could help her secure a good uni and she should try harder.

I’m I being too hard on her? I’m not generally a pushy parent, I am very proud of dd and what she achieves at school, I was rubbish at school and only just last my GCSES so I guess I am just trying to make sure dd doesn’t mess up like I did. I don’t want to upset her by being strict about revision and home work, I just want her to achieve her best.

Dd has Aspergers and some mobility issues, I just want her to reach her goals and do well in life.

I'm sure she is doing her best, and many people struggle with maths, you either can do it or you can't. I personally think you're putting too much pressure on her and your job is to support her and encourage a love of learning, not make it miserable.

Blunt your right, though a year or so ago she was doing great in maths and her teacher was pushing for her to consider taking A level, it’s only been the last 18 months where she’s struggling, I know the work load must be harder as they are pushing towards GCSE and I have a feeling her teacher isn’t great (dd says he doesn’t explain things enough). Her school report indicates she’s still working at a level 7 or 8 but her target is 8/9. Of course I will be proud if she gets a level 7. I think it’s just her attitude, that she doesn’t need maths so there’s no point in trying. I will back off, I don’t nag her much, I generally just let her get on with it.

The maths curriculum has changed hugely over the past few years. A 19 year old that I know, who took A level maths, looked at GCSE maths recently and said it was mainly what he had studied at A level.

Maybe your DD has got list along the way and might need to re visit some past topics to get back up to speed? It seems like she is viewing this as a punishment when it needs to be seen as support.

I've got two dds and the oldest finds school easy and barely has to try. She's in year ten too. The youngest has to work three times as hard just to stay afloat.

This is the first year that oldest dd has has to put some serious work in and it's been a bit of a surprise to her. She's also predicted 8s and 9s and attends revision groups for three or four subjects. I've always expected them to do stuff after school anyway, that's why they finish at 3pm, so they can do football or whatever they want after school.

If she is thinking of computing at A level, then good maths will help. On what basis is 8 her maths target? If it is worked out realistically from previous performance, I'd want to drill down a bit further as to what is going wrong in maths for her at the moment.

My daughter has sometimes got in a tangle on maths topics that didn't immediately make sense to her - black and white thinking! Having generally been able to look at something and understand it straight away, she has found it difficult to spend time wrestling with ideas until they do then make sense. Sometimes helping her through this has been really tricky ... and sometimes the breakthrough has been when she has accepted that a particular thing was just a definition and didn't need to mean anything more in itself.

Is she putting up the shutters on extra maths sessions because she doesn't believe that it will make any difference? Can you reassure her that it is normal and common to get stuck from one small thing, and finding and fixing a few gaps may mean that a whole lot of stuff they've moved on to might make sense straight away.

Hope you can find the right way forward and increase her confidence.

(oh and my daughter got a 9 in her maths in the end)

She seems to think her target grades are based on her SAT resaults? Not sure if this is true alll of her target grades are 8’s and 9’s, she’s hitting targets and above target in all her gcse subjects apart from the maths where she’s hitting a 7. She says that she finds lessons easy but when they get tests there’s stuff in the papers she hasn’t done.

Targets based on SATs results aren't that accurate. For some subjects they may be an underestimate and in others an overestimate.
The new specifications for GCSEs mean they are probably even less accurate now as the SATs/GCSE link was really for the old A*-C system.
If she was Y11 now then going to catch up classes may be appropriate but the difference between grade 7 and 8 isn't that significant and it's possible that if the issue is that the course hasn't been completed yet then she will be fine in Y11.
If the targets are causing stress then I would back off for now as too much pressure may not help in the long term and could be counter-productive.
The pupils who need extra support with Maths are those on the 3/4 boundary not those on the 7/8 one.

What do you mean by "messed up a test"? If it's she got a 6 rather than an 8, then I couldn't get too worried about this. If she got a 2, then I agree it's worth revising the work.

I'm surprised she is predicted 8s and 9s based on SATS - DC's school is predicting a GCSE 6+ for DC who got a KS2 Level 5 in SATS (or did she get Level 6?).

It sounds like she is doing very well. I'd be wary of putting too much pressure on at this stage in case she burns out/tunes out altogether.

No teacher should be predicting 8s in year 8 (you said 18 months ago)

My dd is year 10 in a school where 75% of grades are 8/9. So we’ve had to think hard about expectations because if anything less than an 8/9 is failure that’s not healthy. Nor is it realistic, as in reality, a clutch of GCSEs spread between 7-9, with even one or two 6s is still a really good set of results. The only thing you’re ruling out by not getting all 8/9 is probably Oxbridge and maybe medicine!

So I would back off a bit, let her decide her own priorities with support from you. If she’s happy with a 7 in Maths I don’t think that will change her future prospects in any way! I’ve heard stories on here of kids working 3 hours a night and 15 hours at the weekend for months on end in year 11. Yes, they got all 8/9 but is it worth it?

Sorry I have to challenge this many people struggle with maths, you either can do it or you can't

No, it’s in the teaching for a lot of it! It took years for maths to click for me - it wasn’t until secondary that I got it and then I flew and did it all the way to university.

Having GCSE maths is really important and can be an issue for employers later on.

OP I would get to the bottom of why she’s struggling!!!

Iggly, not necessarily in the teaching.

I am educated to degree level. However, I have no maths qualifications at all, and not for lack of trying or of teaching. I even had a private tutor to help. If I had stayed at school into my thirties I still wouldn't have passed GCSE maths (actually, it was O Level in those days).

I was constantly told how this would absolutely impede my progress getting into university and getting a job. It hasn't. Nobody even asked.

I work in financial services. I am competent at my job and absolutely numerate to the degree required.

Just remember - a 7 is a grade A. Would you have been unhappy if she was achieving a Grade A a few years ago?

She is likely to be right, the new specifications are so difficult that even if she has done the topics one questions might be asking her to remember 3 or 4 different parts of maths and she has to work out what each of them are, in the correct order and then do them!

Maths in year 10 is a big step up and all of our students seem to be struggling with it, not much we can really do - it is hard, but if you daughter is getting grade 7's and you think she is doing her best then I would be very proud of her.

Her target is 8-9 and she is currently 7-8. She's only in Y10 and they won't have covered all the syllabus yet, so give her a break. The maths teacher will be pushing her hard because they want to get that result out of her, but the pressure is too much IMO.

She is doing so well in her other subjects it must be a bit demoralising for her to feel that she is falling behind. But pushing her too hard will be counter-productive and making her do extra catch-up lessons in her lunchtime is more like a punishment than a reward, so take a step back and let her be for now, that's my advice.

We all change over time

So your daughter isn't now bothered about maths and doesn't want to do it at A level

So she doesn't need an 8

Unless you're looking at her being an Oxbridge candidate her GCSEs won't matter for uni applications and as long as she passes maths GCSE she'll get into 6th form

I'd suggest having mobility issues and Aspergers is difficult enough without maths being shoved down her throat

Topseyt I said for a lot of it. I think it’s unhelpful to make a sweeping statement that you either get it or you don’t. There’s a difference between good at mental arithmetic and at certain branches of maths.

tbh, it sounds like you are projecting onto her. Your (perception that you) missed opportunity has become part of the pressure put on her.

And sounds like she doesn't need that pressure from you at all in order to try her hardest.

There's a whole other school of thought where basically parents put pressure on "because we know you can do still better" even when the kids are already high achieving. It's not my style but some find it works well in their family. Pressure is a vote of endorsement rather than setting up for failure (is the theory).

Maybe she is just being realistic, although if this is the only subject where she needs help and has been offered extra class then she should take it imo.
But if she is already doing lots of extra study and needs her breaks more, then she will prioritise what is important.
I have the same problem but at the other end level 4/5.

How long would she go to extra maths? Rest of this term, end of year, all the way to GCSE?

I would encourage her to go. Just having someone else explain can really help. A lot of students find it easier to work on maths with a bit of help in a supportive session than slog it out at home alone.

It's not so much about meeting the target grade IMO, if she wants to do computing & business then the more maths knowledge she secures now the better.

She does want to go to a good uni, would love to go to oxford or Cambridge but I don’t push her for this (I would be happy where ever she goes), she seems to think she will get into a top uni with a grade 7.

She got around 50-60% on her test, it was a test before her mocks in a few weeks, she has to do some catch up work for a few lunch times (only for a couple weeks), this is because she didn’t hit her target. She just keeps saying there’s no point as she can’t do the work. I just want her to take the help she’s being offered, I don’t usually push her hard, she loves school and is naturally academic, she attends engineering clubs and runs her own coding club. I never have to tell her to do her homework and never need to help her, she’s one of those kids that will do a piece of homework last minute and still get top marks, she’s never really had to push herself which is why she’s finding the maths a bit more challenging (she’s never found anything hard until now).

“She says that she finds lessons easy but when they get tests there’s stuff in the papers she hasn’t done.

They often use existing test papers that include things they haven’t covered, with resulting low % marks.

This could be undermining her confidence?

Have a look at what courses might interest her at Uni. Look up some actual Unis and courses and let her browse some she likes the look of. Then check the course requirements, grades and subjects.

She doesn’t have to pick her course and Uni now but working towards something she is interested in rather than chasing ‘targets’ might be more meaningful.

Children don’t develop academically along a straight upwards line. And their interests and abilities change and grow. You say she was being encouraged into Maths A level ‘a year or so’ ago? My Dc was identified G&T in English in Yr 7 and 8. Got a grade 6 at GCSE (8 for language though), but is currently heading for A*/A in Maths, Physics and Chemistry at A level.

Loosen your grip on targets.

And check whether Business and Computing are facilitating subjects for the kind of courses she is interested in before picking them at A level.

DC often got v low sounding % in tests: what % are classmates getting? She may be doing phenomenally well on 60%, and “working at” 7 now means she will get an 8 in 15 months time.

"She just keeps saying there’s no point as she can’t do the work"

It's always worthwhile setting your own goals. Don't give up.

Just because it's jolly difficult is not a reason to not do something.
The most satisfying achievements are the ones that were super hard for you, regardless of whether they compare badly or well to someone else's grades.

Those are messages that I'd promote. That said, I'm not one to crack the whip. I simply don't have mental or physical energy for it. My kids know they have have to have own initiative. I refuse to be stressed out by or proud of any of their achievements (under or over).

She has spent hours researching uni courses, she has changed her mind several times but seems to be set on computing and English literature mainly because she’s hitting 9’s in these subjects. She’s never really pushed herself and puts in minimum effort but still hits high levels. She’s always been one to give up on things pretty quickly if they are tricky (things she does at home rather than academic things) probably due to her Aspergers.

She wasn’t the only child to mess up on the test, she said quite a few others have to go in at lunchtime for catch up lessons too.