Kingsdale waiting list

[sara75]

Hello everyone, my daughter is 59th on waiting list for our first choice, Kingsdale, on the Banding list and 83rd on the scholarship waiting list. How likely do you think she is in getting a place? They apparently had 3000 applications this year and their intake is advertised on the website as 240...

Sure prh it's not direct selection but let's not be disingenuous - a school like Kingsdale knows very well it will get a higher prior achieving cohort by banding in this way (coupled with a range of scholarships on offer attracting just about every conceivable talent) leading predictably to top results later on.
I'm not saying the school does nothing right, obviously it does have fab teachers facilities extra-curricular etc etc. But, everyone knows, don't they? that the biggest predictor of stellar exam results further down the line is high achievement at end of KS2.
So a school concerned to maximize results - and all schools are, right? under pressure from Ofsted? - will first of all see to it how it can maximise its intake's prior achievement, without of course, breaking the law.
Seems to me Kingsdale has totally cracked it - congratulations are in order, I suppose! But, additionally, there is a question mark, you agreed, over how they do their random allocation list. And thinking about it, repeated redraws, which they are supposed to be doing but are not, right? might well end up attracting the less able to the banded waiting lists. At the moment, no-one bothers (probably), being aware that they are already 1000s long.
One thing the school hasn't cracked is the relatively new Progress 8 score. Perhaps they are working on it. I suspect they know though that for many high achieving families Progress 8 is low priority - it's all about raw attainment!
It matters because viewed globally - the job of policy, right? - schools like Kingsdale virtually entirely populated by high-achievers means there will be others disproportionately populated by low achievers, with consequent results, getting lashed accordingly by Ofsted for it, and shunned even more by, um, motivated families like all of us here. It doesn't really seem fair, and it certainly isn't comprehensive.

a school like Kingsdale knows very well it will get a higher prior achieving cohort by banding in this way

If that were true, every school using fair banding would get a higher prior achieving cohort. They don't.

Plus, I have some intelligence from a thoroughly authoritative source, which may be well known to those who know the school better than I do . . .Years ago, Kingsdale was a totally sink untouchable school which none of us would have inflicted on our kids if you paid us . . . Then current head took over, collected the vast amounts of PP money the school could claim back then (not now incidentally!) and (instead of spending on those disadvantaged PP kids, as he should have, says my source) spent it on flashy well-stocked scholarships aimed at, you guessed it, thoroughly well-brought up high-achieving kids like all of ours!
At same time he scrapped the previous admissions policy and brought in the lottery . . . he had the liberty to do that even back then it being a Foundation not local authority school.
Bingo! The school's star rose overnight - or at least over a brief couple of years - to become the place we all know and love today.
And by the way, head is a former maths teacher - so he probably had it all worked out in advance on an algorithmic model!
Okay, I'm done now. Must get on with something else at last.

collected the vast amounts of PP money the school could claim back then (not now incidentally!)

On the latest statistics, 22.6% of Kingsdale pupils are eligible for PP. That is a little below the average for the LA but by no means the lowest in Southwark secondary schools.

(instead of spending on those disadvantaged PP kids, as he should have, says my source) spent it on flashy well-stocked scholarships aimed at, you guessed it, thoroughly well-brought up high-achieving kids like all of ours

Don't know your source but Ofsted found that the PP money was being well used to provide effective support for the eligible pupils. If it is (or was) being misused, Ofsted didn't notice.

OK, 22% PP is much higher than I thought, it was around 10% last time I looked (not so long ago). Obviously however the school turned itself around, it didn't break any actual regs. And that's great to hear Matlow, all very best to your dd. Now I really think I should move on!

“a school like Kingsdale knows very well it will get a higher prior achieving cohort by banding in this way”

“If that were true, every school using fair banding would get a higher prior achieving cohort. They don't.”

But a PP pointed out how the massive over subscription by high achieving families chasing scholarships skews the grade boundaries for the banding tests.

Last time I looked the ratio of high strainers at KD was very high.

The other local school which does fair banding does not advertise in buses or offer scholarships, it admits on distance. Realistically there are only about 4 primaries you could be in to get a place on distance and to my knowledge 2 of those are very pro active in supporting children to get to the banding test. It’s the local school so they all do it together.

I think Fair Banding is a good way to pull a school out of ‘sink’ status by guaranteeing that high achieving children will have peers. It is a good way to avoid the polarisation between the sought after over subscribed school and the one everyone tried to avoid.

Matlow Really glad your Dd is happy and doing well.

I have always heard that pupils enjoy Kingsdsle.

Last time I looked the ratio of high strainers at KD was very high

It is, and the ratio of low attainers is very low.

I was responding to a poster who appeared to be arguing that fair banding on its own resulted in a higher achieving cohort. On its own, it doesn't. However, combined with an aggressive marketing campaign and other factors, that can be the outcome.

We were also in this position last year. My ds was number 47 on the band waiting list (band 2)
I was convinced he would get a place, and spent the whole summer anxiously waiting and getting very stressed. He made it to number 6 on the list by the 1st September and it hasn't moved since the first day of term.
His friend was number 41 in band 1, and was offered a place in the last week of August.
So it does move, but last year nowhere near as much as in previous years according to old threads on here. My advice would be not to do what I did, and get behind the school you have got. if it does come up, bonus, but I needlessly stressed myself, and though I tried not to, also my ds. Who is now very happy and achieving well where he is.
Good luck.

How on earth can a school with a lottery admissions system run a numbered waiting list? You would need to be issuing new numbers every time a family declined a place!

Our local school is a lottery school. There is no numbered waiting list. Every time a place becomes available there is another lottery draw. Nobody has ever been given a wait list number as you can’t, can you? There is a pool of wait list candidates.

Applepieco; that’s how it should be.

If I was way way down the Kingsdale list (last year a friend was in the 400s) I would take prh47’s point above and report them!

Just to add to the point about Kingsdale’s 22% PP intake (pupil premium, or free school meals entitlement, a measure of deprivation) I have just done a spot of research. My local schools in neighbouring Lambeth have 63-65% pp intake. And my DCs school, marginally more ‘fashionable’ I suppose but also v inner-city, has 50%.
Just for comparison. . All are v good schools.

I live five minutes from Kingsdale but it didn't go on my daughter's list. I didn't like it. She didn't like it. They make such a big hoo ha about their gcse results and 'scholarship' things but of all the schools I looked at they didn't give any info about what they actually do with the Year 7s to introduce them to Secondary school life. It felt cramped and shabby.
I don't understand why it is so popular either.

Thanks Laidbackorlazy I am trying to but cannot get the “if” out of my mind also because I have doubts on the school they gave us and my other preferred option is private, which will put financial strain on all of us and limit my younger son’s options of course. But it does look like this waiting list is not going to move much at all to be honest and your position was better than ours. So glad your child is happy at new school.

I don’t like Kingsdale but I live in a secondary school black hole. Lots of good schools in the area, all recruiting based on distance, none stretches all the way to me. So it’s either Kingsdale or a secondary with results below the national average an hour away...

Hello - has anyone read Kingsdale's GCSE and A-level result report for this year? There are children (admittedly only a few) taking 14 - 18 GCSE
examinations. The results of the few they mention are astounding. What is going on there?

The results of the few they mention are astounding Hopefully the school will manage better progress scores this year.

“What is going on there?”

Read the previous posts.

The way the school manages its marketing, scholarships and admissions policy ensures a high attaining intake. The results reflect that.

Sorry - should have been clearer. Yes - I knew that Kingsdale run a slick marketing campaign to always attract high attainers who will come out the other side making them look good, but how does a school accommodate a child taking 16 GCSEs? Is there enough time in the weekly schedule for one child to cover 16 subjects or are they operating a system where children are taking GCSE Maths for example in 3 different ways, or children who speak 2 languages at home taking those subjects at GCSE without any school involvement for example, or do specific children take GCSE exams in Year 9, Year 10 and Year 11 to build up to that number? It's just mind boggling.

Hi all, this is going to sound really random I'm going through the hell of applying this year have until end of week to submit forms we live in Clapham son loves Kingsdale school however I have mummy anxiety mainly about distance, & over 2000 kids being at the school

so just from those that know can anyone give me any reasons to NOT to put it on form?

Thanks x

@marytuda you've made some interesting points, don't suppose you have any advice on Lambeth schools? This year we are choosing without viewing schools due to covid.

Fascinating thread.

laidbackorlazy so did you finally get told you had a place!

My child would have to travel for an hour to get to kingsdale but my child loves the school.

There is nothing local to us that could offer the sports, music and arts aspect.

I don't want to get my hopes up but here I am messaging about school places because I can't sleep.

I totally agree about the need for the supplementary form being a way to weed out disorganised applications or parents who can't get their act together.

There is an academy near us who uses the supplementary form and last year no one got in who did not complete it by their deadline and it was very confusing figuring out the deadline!

In addition I also think some schools use expensive uniforms as a way to put people off applying. A friend had to pay in excess of 200 quid to kit out her daughter at an academy and you get demerits if it is not all logo this and that.

@kingpinner are you applying for next year too? We liked Kingsdale also but we saw it in evening I can't imagine how it looks when filled with 2000 kids. What are your other choices?

Would someone able to compare Graveney versus Kingsdale please?

Yes we are sparklymum we live in a different borough and I know the school we will get if we don't get Kingsdale is one of the worst performing secondary schools in the country.

So it is fingers crossed for us.

Also we add coming from a poor primary with next to no outdoor space so we all thought it was amazing! But I guess we are coming from a different perspective.

I don't want to get our hopes up but I do see it as a massive opportunity, and for me I am pleased with the lottery system as at least we would have a shot.