Accept scholarship or simple offer at more academic school?

[iamapixie]

Would be interested to get views...if a DC has an academic scholarship offer from one school (which has 75ish% A/A) and a standard non-scholarship offer from another (with say 85% or into the 90s A/A) which one would you go for? Schools are each lovely in their own ways; great atmosphere; impressive leadership; lots of sport and music; similar journey times. So all other things being equal, would you go for one with a slightly better "name" just for the value of reputation? Or go for the one where DC will be specifically nurtured via the scholarship programme?

Are there any requirements attached to the scholarship in terms of obligations from your DS?

Will he have to attend extra sessions, represent the school at any events etc? And is the scholarship programme nurturing, or pressurising? How would your DS cope with extra pressure? I would ask the school for further info.

If the money really isn't an issue, you must have got a gut feeling as to which school would better suit your DS? I think ethos and atmosphere is very important in these decisions. Does your DS have a preference?

Gut feeling is really important. I'd take a second look round both schools on a normal school day and see if that helped.

Is there really nothing in the culture of one or other that you or dc prefer?

We had a similar choice, except the 2 schools were in very different leagues academically. So we chose the 'better' one with no scholarship. But we had been more impressed by the head/facilities/teachers/culture at the one we chose all the way through the process. The school that awarded the scholarship was only ever an insurance place so the decision was easy, although I often think about what we could have done with the discount that we declined....

I agree that ideally you need to make the decision based on your feelings about the schools and how they fit your child. Your question has prompted interesting thoughts for me, about the decisions we made. Our eldest - choice between place at a pretty academic school, and scholarship at an all-rounder school. Her choice was the all-rounder and we were happy to go with it because they gave us confidence that they were doing thoughtful things to develop and stretch their most academic students. Our youngest, at the school of choice (ours and his), his only chance of a place was via a scholarship. There was also a chance if he did well but didn't get a scholarship, he might be offered a place at that point. At the second choice school, he was awarded a scholarship and they were willing to wait for our decision (several weeks between the two sets of exams). Although it was clear that at that school he would have "stuck out" a bit, possibly even above other scholarship holders, their attitude made it very clear that they would have supported him very well - we ended up making a decision that unless he got a scholarship place at the 1st school, we would accept the second. He did pull off the second scholarship in the end and the more academic school is definitely the best place for him. (to clarify, he's at a boarding school that houses scholars together)

Finances didn't come into our decision making as the bursary levels offered made it a fairly level playing field for us.

I would like to think that most schools would have a programme that would nurture their high achieving students effectively regardless of which ones were awarded an academic scholarship at entry.

I think you have to consider the school's results, less and what they will offer your particular child, more, and whether you have a child who does better "at the top", or responds to being surrounded by an academic peer group. The attitude of the school to your child is also relevant. Any chance to revisit the schools if it truly feels like equipoise on your decision making? Good luck and I hope in years to come you will feel happy about your choice.

Thank you. I agree that feel is really important but we really like both schools as does DC who is just generally very positive about everything! There are conditions about representing the school and extra tutorials but DC is a very energetic and enthusiastic person so not too bothered by that. I wonder whether going round on offer holders days might make it more clear but I fear not. I think I just feel a bit surrounded by parents who feel the world will come to an end if their kid doesn't get into the "right" school (ie the school with the right "name") and I don't know whether I should following their lead of going to the most academic school DC can get into or whether to make sure DC is a big scholar-fish in a small pond! DC is very bubbly and "water off a duck's back" but is the permanently-ignored child at primary so wondering if being a scholar would be best in the long run for confidence.

He will be better off being the scholar in the lesser school! You really are splitting hairs over the results. Both schools are excellent and thinking 75% A/A* isn’t academic is a bit of a joke really!

Bright enthusiastic children don’t have to be around identical children to do well. At many schools, the scholars do get extra and if he didn’t get a scholarship to the known school, he will know he’s second best. Why start off in this position if you don’t have to. Take the scholarship and forget prestige. However if the standard offer is from Eton or Harrow I might have a different opinion! However he won’t be in Heads house!

We were in the same position too. DC had been the big fish in a small pond. We had exactly he same dilemma (and the results sound similar other than non-scholarship school had gcses at 95% A*/A) and went for the better school without the scholarship.

Initially there were some issues with not being the top but he soon settled in and actually the fact that there were cleverer people around him meant he ended up working harder than friends of his who were on a similar level who went to the other school.

His eventual gcse grades were higher than the highest grades achieved at the school where he would have had the scholarship. We also think he worked harder because it was the norm at the school he went to and he would have coasted a bit at the other school and as it would not have been the norm to get heads down probably would not have got quite as good grades across the board.

I think there are pros and cons - so this may not be that helpful a reply! I think some dc find it surprisingly pressurised being identified as amongst the cleverest (and yes the dc will eventually know, whatever the policy) and would prefer to be blending in in the middle. You'll know best whether your dc is in that category.

On the other hand I think there's some research that for some dc it's better for their well being and confidence to be near the top than to be permanently struggling at the bottom (not saying that your dc would be doing that at the second school of course!) Is the 'better name' particularly pressurised - I'd want to avoid being somewhere where an A (now 7) at GCSE is a disappointment!

Also, is the scholarship guaranteed for 5 or 7 yrs - if there's an inkling that it can be withdrawn for less than stellar performance, that could also create a lot of stress (not sure if any schools still do this though!)

Thank you for the really helpful views. Yes it is right that I am splitting hairs (and totally realise that this is the perfect example of a 1st world "problem"!). Neither school is a hothouse at all but yes the scholarship can be reassessed each year so it could be taken away and I hadn't really thought of that and the impact it could have. Good to hear what other people in the same situation have done - albeit going in different directions! Food for thought. All other views v gratefully received!

We also think he worked harder because it was the norm at the school he went to and he would have coasted a bit at the other school and as it would not have been the norm to get heads down probably would not have got quite as good grades across the board.

This is known as the 'peer effect'. It's well documented, though there is a lot of debate about its importance relative to other factors.

We were in this position a few years ago. Ds had a generous academic scholarship plus free music lessons for a couple instruments for one school and just a regular place at our preferred school. Luckily we didn’t really have to worry about the fees - although I admit the reduction offered did give us a moments hesitation. After being bullied for being top of the class at his state primary we wanted him to be average in his secondary and for us it worked out well, but then we did have a firm preference. Might have been a harder decision otherwise.

Is your ds in the top quartile of the 'lesser' schools intake? As he has a scholarship then yes, he is. Does the top quartile at this school get top grades? Yes? Then it is safe to say he will. It really is irrelevant if more people get top grades at the other school as your DS isn't 'other people'. He's a top performer and will perform well anywhere.

I can see why you are torn a bit ... you might also want to take into account things like : What does your DC respond well to - positive pressure (being a scholar so has to perform) or peer pressure (being part of the norm in the 95%A school)? Needs to be the right environment for your DC.

We had exactly the same situation and went for the 'less' academic school. I've no doubt ds would have been happy at the other school too but at his current school he has been really nurtured with the scholars programme and is in a class with other scholars so has got to meet a lot of other academic children. He's only in his second term there but says his friends are more 'his type' than they were at his non-academic prep. He is stretched but also as he's surrounded by equally bright dc's in his class he isn't coasting. No regrets at all!

I'd also look at things like travel time, facilities, lunch options, uniform requirements... All the smaller things that can make a big difference to his overall enjoyment of the school

What are the schools? You probably don't want to say on here but if you PM me I might be able to help.

Are you sure the scholars really do get something “extra”? Obviously depends on the school but at many, many there is no difference except for money.

And on that basis, assuming you can afford it, I would go with whichever school is “best” and was your preference before the scholarship (which could be the less academic one).

I'm with Lindtnotlint. At most independent schools a scholarship simply means the fees are reduced. I am not aware of a scholarship programme providing specific nurturing at any of the many independent schools I have been in contact with over the years. Check carefully what the scholarship means before making any decisions.

At DDs school academic scholars do get an additional programme, but are mixed in with all the other students for other subjects (only maths is streamed).
As far as I know there is no special programme for academic scholars at DSs school. Again they are mixed in with all the other students for all classes.
Both are selective schools.

Queenswood have a development programme for their scholars, whether academic, sports, art or music. However I think there is little or no monetary value and the fees are steep! It is a lovely school. I know happy girls there.

Thank you all. I'm glad to know that other people's thoughts mirror what's been churning round my head even though I'm still in a total quandary! I didn't want to name the schools because the 11+ journey is a horror for some people and I don't want people guessing (!) + I wanted all views irrespective of possible personal views on the schools themselves iyswim. It might all become clearer when the final offers or rejections are in because that might give a truer sense of where DC is at compared to a wider cohort. Hard to tell with a 10 yr old whose head's in the clouds! Thank you again for being so helpful.

I'd say that many scholarship programmes are a bit of marketing tool, as are the scholarships,nwhicwhich are often not much in terms of fee remission these days. Often less academic schools offer lots, hoping the kudos will attract students who will get offers from more academic schools and be unlikely to choose them without the scholarship.

It's iftennthe case that although schools make a big thing about the scholarship programme, the activities in offer are actually available to others if they want to get involved too. Good schools challenge and provide for all their students and not just the scholarship ones.

And I'd say that it's not just splitting hairs to distinguish between a 70% A*/A school and a 90/95% one. There are loads and loads of schools in the former category (Good schools- don't get me wrong) and far fewer if the latter type.

Think too about which you would choose without the scholarship offer. I'd try to see the scholarship as a red herring (unless it makes a real financial difference) and consider if you'd have been seriously considering the scholarship school as an offer holder for the other school, if there was no scholarship.

Of course,mig you really loved he scholarship school more or thought it was the perfect fit and had things you didn't like about the more academic school,not hen fair enough, but as you don't and it doesn't seem the money is a vital factor, personally I'd go for the better school. The cohort could be really quite different. The scholarship school does get good results but will have a much wider range of abilities and that can have an impact on the curriculum and general ethos and speed of learning. If the more academic school is very hard to get into, I'd see getting a standard offer as the equivalent (or probably better) than the scholarship offer to the other school.

Good luck in choosing.

What is the scholarship for? that might help with advice.

I think 'scholarship programmes' are increasingly a 'thing'. Theyvar especially used when scholarship fee remission is low and not going to swing it for many people choosing between 2 schools - so the schools try to look like theyvar offering something special and a real seeking point.

Schemes I've know have included an academic scholar programme - usually some enrichment sessions offered in Depts at lunchtimes, or special invitations to outside speaker events,nor sometimes an academic mentor further up the school who meets for a quick chat and suggests further reading etc. Much of the things offered are also available to other students too but scholars might be pushed towards them more.

I've known music and sports and drama programmes too. Again they can be encouragement to attend plays and concerts or requirements to join plays and concerts, possibly with more liklihood of bigger parts. Sports adepts sometimes offer extra sessions about diet for sportspeople or similar. To be honest much if it isn't that impressive or different to what is on offer to all, and in scone places schools actively make sure there isn't anything only exclusively available to scholars as it can provoke parental annoyance and complaint, from the fee paying parents.

So I do think these special 'offerings' are more common these days, but the reality probably isn't loads more available than that on offer to any keen and enthusiastic student who is willing to take up the opportunities available. It's all part of claiming to offer individualised learning and opportunities to make it feel like independent schools really are offering something extra for their fees, when standards in lots of state schools have risen and often parents consider if going independent is really worth it. The cynical me says this is really another way to sell the product and to try to win students from other independents or state schools, when there is still kudos attached to being a 'scholar' by lots of Preps and parents.

I am a bit cynical about “scholarships” with no fee remission. It seems to me that kids instead get drawn into a lot of peripheral time-wasting that actually distracts from their studies. If there is genuine super-curricular work to extend them that is great, but otherwise watch out. Schools sometimes also have Oxbridge Applications Groups later when almost nobody gets in but parents are made to feel better along the way. I attach a lot more value to peer effect!

Thank you all. It's an academic scholarship and there is a fairly significant % off fees though we are very lucky for that not to be the key deciding factor. There does seem to be extra "stuff" - which is of course open to all but that the scholars are encouraged towards. So for me it's not about the stuff itself - DC will do fine wherever really - but whether just being called a "scholar" will be a way of helping DC - who is bright, but not scarily so, unproblematic, happy, provides good "social glue" in any setting - be nurtured rather than just ignored on the basis of being so easy.