Hypothetically speaking… would the following be considered ‘over tutoring’? What are my rights, responsibilities and civic duties reference making an ‘intervention’ on behalf of the child?

[Leatherdead]

At DS’s outstanding leafy commuter belt primary, a child (a friend of DS) is prevented from socialising with DS and other children outside of school. This is almost certainly because of pushy parenting and extra homework and tutoring this child is put through while his contemporaries are out on the cricket pitch or riding their bicycles.

It’s common knowledge that a handful of boys are put forward for the Wallington, Tiffin and Wilsons 11+ exams which only take pupils scoring 98-100% on their tests. Each of these boys’ grammar schools are located many miles from us, with the majority of pupils at DS’s primary going on to attend any number of excellent faith comps nearby, or independents in neighbouring towns and villages.

DH and I don’t agree with selection at 11, but we accept parents may wish to pursue this as an option for their children. However, (Strictly hypothetically speaking) when would tutoring become almost wrong? Abusive even? In a really extreme scenario, would any one of us have a responsibility to report this? Could the state intervene in extreme cases?

If, say, a child was being locked in the basement and forced to study hour after hour between home testing?

I understand your point completely and sympathise as I detest over-tutoring. It leads to very unhappy children.

However, in terms of the state intervening, it is extremely unlikely that anyone would do anything as the threshold for social services to step in is really high. I don't want to give details but I am aware of a child I teach who comes from a family rather like you describe in your OP. The child has suffered injuries which are not easily explained as accidental/sporting and their primary school transferred a safeguarding file with a number of concern. However, it was & is not deemed enough for SS to do anything.

(Again, hypothetically speaking) If a boy were locked in the basement for the entirety of the Christmas holidays doing practice papers, this would surely be something we could report as concerned citizens, no?

Could we report this anonymously? Is it worth writing to the grammar schools themselves?

You could (hypothetically) call the NSPCC for some advice. They will contact any relevant agencies if they deem it necessary.

I think the tutoring is a red herring. It’s the locking in the room that’s the issue. I’d focus on that.

Do you have any evidence that this child is being locked in the basement? If not, it's really none of your business.

fwiw one of the mums at ds's school stopped all clubs and outside activities at the start of year 5 and her ds had v limited socialising in prep for the 11+. We all thought it was nuts but calling it abusive is a stretch.

Sooooonowwhat

What part of hypothetically speaking don’t you get, hun?

(Hypothetically speaking) What if DS was bundled out of their house when he came asking questions, looking for his friend?

It doesn’t matter if your DS was bundled out of their house. Maybe they don’t like your DS and didn’t want him hanging around with their son?

If he’s actually being locked in a room then you need to report it. If he’s not, you don’t.

I know a child/ teenager to whom this happened. It was a culture related issue.
The individual was very damaged by it, burnt out, depressed and failed their A levels.
Completely avoidable and very sad.
My own teenager by contrast was encouraged to keep up with sports. Have a reasonable social life and study effectively for regular short periods. A level results were good.
There has to be a balance.
Also, children who have to overstudy often can't cope with grammar school.

Maybe their ds was just doing their homework and they didn't want him disturbed and it sounds like your ds turned up uninvited? Sounds like there are an awful lot of hypotheticals here.

(Hypothetically) It’s not the case that DS was bundled out for interrupting his homework time...

He was looking to go for a kickabout with his friend...

When he called out for him all he could hear were muffled cries from the basement...

Any this is all besides the point.

Surely there is something more we can do...

Hypothetically they're doing what they think is best for their DS in the same way you think you're doing the best for yours.

If he gets in to the Grammar and gets stellar A Levels and a first from Cambridge they'll think a few weeks study was a minor sacrifice for the better future.

I'm sure there is a parable about a cricket (?) who messed about all summer then had nothing to eat in the winter.

You heard muffled cries from the basement?
What is hypothetical and what actually happened?!

Do you actually have any evidence that the child was actually locked in the basement? It doesn't sound as if you do.
'Muffled cries' - think you've been reading a few too many true crime stories. Kids shout and scream when they're playing. They have tantrums when they don't want to do their homework.
You sound a bit jealous and spiteful to be honest. Maybe you secretly wish your children were smart enough to have the same chance of getting into a selective school?
Of course, you might have a point, but nothing you've said on this HYPOTHETICAL thread makes me think you do. Hun.

CAn you not just post normally?
The odd hypotheticals are silly, are we supposed to guess which are hypothetical and which are “hypothetical”?
If you are aware of a child being locked in the basedmnt and ‘muffled cries’ were herd from there then yes, report.
If it’s simply that you do t agree with intensive tutoring (I don’t either) then no, nothing to report.

It's a tough one because it should be only for a short period of time (a year or less.) If they never let him play then, yes it would be abusive. But if it's 'head down for a year, this really matters,' then it's just strict but maybe kind in the long run.
Over tutoring is counterproductive but I'm not sure it's abuse. They want him to get to a good school. Is that any more cruel than letting DC constantly take it easy and then panicking when they get mocks that show they won't pass GCSEs?

What makes a basement different from a bedroom? If a child was made to study in their bedroom door hours, that level of discipline is not necessarily abusive. A basement is awful if it is dark and cold and dank. However, it could be warm and light and well-furnished, in which case it's just another place to study?

I think, hypothetically, if you have concerns, you need to share them with the school, who will be able to decide if it matches their view of this child, and whether there is anything they need to do. Otherwise, concentrate on your child. Hypothetically, nobody can tell you whether there is anything abusive about encouraging study to gain a place at a school.

How is it even your business? Unless they're torturing him or being violent in some way, it's between them and their DS.

I was certainly encouraged to study for many hours every day in earnest for my A Levels. Was that abuse? (It worked btw)

Hypothetically speaking if you call someone "Hun" on Mumsnet are you even allowed to continue posting?

Sorry OP, but that’s a slightly ridiculous thread...

I know lots of children who have been heavily tutored, who spend hours revising, who spend most of their free time outside of the holidays studying, practising instruments, training in competitive sports, etc. And guess what - most of these kids are really happy with what they are achieving.

How do you know he was studying in the basement? He might have been crying because he was told off, he might be crying because he could hear his parents say that he wasn't allowed out, he might have been crying because he was tantrumming before your ds arrived and was trying to calm down, he might have had an argument with his sibling, he might have an agreement with his parents to do one Bond 10 minute paper daily but was being a drama queen ...

Contact the police if you're concerned about his safety but I don't know why you jumped to the conclusion that he's locked in the basement against his will.

I've told friends who've knocked that my child is unavailable. In one instance I told my child that they could go out if they tidied their room and they hadn't done it by the time that others were knocking.

Thank you for those messages of support. (Hypothetically) I will need to discuss with DH and make a plan for staging an intervention to have the state claim the poor boy.

For those who have treated this as a glib and dismissive thing, really hope you never have to front up to societal issues in your private lives.

make a plan for staging an intervention to have the state claim the poor boy.

That’s not really how it works. Report it to social services if you are concerned. Leave it to the experts to decide whether to remove the child or not.

This is such a weird thread.
What's with all the (hypothetical)s inserted into every post ?

If you think a child is being abused in some way - don't leave it and discuss it with all and sundry whilst you 'consider it'. Either call your local social services, or phone the NSPCC to ask their advice.

Not responding to your ds calling unannounced is a perfectly normal and acceptable part of parenting.

"Muffled cries from the basement" sounds dramatic. If you genuinely believe someone is being mistreated, don't post on here about it - contact the police at that point. Or, if it was your ds who told you later, contact social services or the NSPCC.

If you think tutoring to the exclusion of any 'fun' time, or 'relaxation' time is poor parenting - fine. Many will agree with you and others won't, but if you think that is 'abuse', you've led a very innocent life.