Hypothetically speaking… would the following be considered ‘over tutoring’? What are my rights, responsibilities and civic duties reference making an ‘intervention’ on behalf of the child?

[Leatherdead]

At DS’s outstanding leafy commuter belt primary, a child (a friend of DS) is prevented from socialising with DS and other children outside of school. This is almost certainly because of pushy parenting and extra homework and tutoring this child is put through while his contemporaries are out on the cricket pitch or riding their bicycles.

It’s common knowledge that a handful of boys are put forward for the Wallington, Tiffin and Wilsons 11+ exams which only take pupils scoring 98-100% on their tests. Each of these boys’ grammar schools are located many miles from us, with the majority of pupils at DS’s primary going on to attend any number of excellent faith comps nearby, or independents in neighbouring towns and villages.

DH and I don’t agree with selection at 11, but we accept parents may wish to pursue this as an option for their children. However, (Strictly hypothetically speaking) when would tutoring become almost wrong? Abusive even? In a really extreme scenario, would any one of us have a responsibility to report this? Could the state intervene in extreme cases?

If, say, a child was being locked in the basement and forced to study hour after hour between home testing?

What is the point of all the "hypotheticals" inserted into this thread? Either this is happening or it isn't! Throwing a few hypotheticals into the narrative isn't going to make the situation any less recognisable if the parents happen to be reading!

If you have concerns about this child, go ahead and speak to his school but you had better have something more concrete to base your concerns on than the fact that your DS says he heard muffled cried from the basement when he called around once to collect the boy for football. You will sound deluded and probably won't be taken seriously if you do come across more concrete evidence of over-tutoring in the future. And as for the state claiming the poor boy - do you really think that is what will happen?!

However, (Strictly hypothetically speaking) when would tutoring become almost wrong?

Leaving aside the hypotheticals there are circumstances where tutoring is right/wrong.

1. It's right if you live in a full grammar school area and a comprehensive is therefore not an option.
2. Wrong if it relates purely to parental ego and nothing to do with the child's needs or wishes.
3. Wrong if it requires child giving up all sorts of the pleasures/normal activities of childhood and there is a prefectly reasonable comprehensive available from which, if child is willing to put in the effort, they will probably get great exam results and a shot at Cambridge if that is what they wish.

I second everything BackforGood said, including 'This is such a weird thread'!!

I agree that this thread is just totally bizarre!

If the issue is a child being abused and you have genuine cause to believe that he is being harmed, then take more a more proactive approach than posting online.

If the issue is that you disagree with tutoring and your ds has been denied his playmate, then suck it up and leave this family alone. The way that different parents decide on their parenting style and what they prioritise is absolutely none of your business.

If I wanted my child to go to a certain school and it involved an intense period of cutting down on the fun to achieve an end goal, then I would definitely do that. Perhaps the local comprehensive is a good school, but if it’s not what they want for their son, why does it matter what they choose instead?

I’m also convinced that poster HPFA is just the OP with a new log in This point in your post:

“Wrong [if there is a] perfectly reasonable conprehensive available”

Sounds so much like the sour grapes of the OP who basically doesn’t like the sound of this little boy not choosing the same school as her ds!

Your second paragraph muddies the waters OP.

A friend of your DS isn't allowed to play out with the other boys in the village until he's finished his homework/tutoring. You feel that he is missing out. You disapprove of the selective system his parents are apparently choosing (though you don't actually know this).

Do you have any evidence of abuse? Does this boy have physical or behavioural signs of any abuse other than parents who are more pushy than you believe is appropriate? If you do, then report to SS.

Saying that you are going to report to the grammar schools (who will do nothing) smacks of meanness/jealousy and is frankly bizarre.

You have made your post all about the tutoring. That is not the issue here. If he's being tortured in the basement of course you should report to SS.

For balance though: my DD used to get in such a state about homework that a 30 minute piece could take days of sitting and shrieking. My suggestion of leaving it if it was too much didn't help. She was determined I had to essentially do it for her (which I wasn't prepared to do). It took a couple of years for her to calm down and actually get something on paper (v bright but anxious). It may be that they are going through similar with this boy: he wants and needs to do it but makes a production, so they have cut out other things to take the pressure off.

If it's abuse, report. If it's lots of homework, leave well enough alone.

• also convinced that poster HPFA is just the OP with a new log in This point in your post:

“Wrong [if there is a] perfectly reasonable conprehensive available”

Sounds so much like the sour grapes of the OP who basically doesn’t like the sound of this little boy not choosing the same school as her ds!*

Good grief, I can assure you that is not the case!!

Whilst I agree there is a certain oddity to this thread, there is a serious point to be made. I have seen plenty of posters on this site who seem to assume that passing exams for selective schools is the only way of accessing top-class universities. Tutoring a child where comprehensives aren't available is one thing, a child being made to give up a lot of their childhood in the mistaken belief that somehow only passing this one exam will grant access to a top university is quite another!

OP, if your son called for this boy and he wasn’t available then the parents would have told him this at the front door, surely? Why would your son have then taken to “calling out” for his friend, unless he is a loon? It’s not really normal to start shouting outside or inside other people’s houses is it? And how would he know the “muffled cries” came from the basement as opposed to the bathroom, for instance? How would you know someone was studying without having clapped eyes on them? I agree this is all most odd indeed. Also, not all basements are like dungeons, you know. Ours is a teen hangout / cinema with table football and the X box etc and the DC love it.

Why would your son have then taken to “calling out” for his friend, unless he is a loon? It’s not really normal to start shouting outside or inside other people’s houses is it? And how would he know the “muffled cries” came from the basement as opposed to the bathroom, for instance?

This. OP, you sound unhinged and have written your post in the manner of a self-published whodunnit. It sounds a lot like you are annoyed that this boy wasn't available on demand for your ds to play with and you are jealous about him potentially going to one of these superselectives. It also sounds bizarre and vindictive that you want the state to 'intervene'. I can't imagine you will have any joy with it if you are as coherent in rl as you are on this thread and all you'll achieve is to be a nuisance to social services and possibly this child and his family. Nothing you have said sounds like a child is being abused.

I live in an area with super selective, and very highly sought after private schools. My DS mixes with lots of children through a hobby who are tutored within an inch of their lives - not just school work, but music, sport etc.

It may not be the way I would do it, and I'm sure it screws up some children later, but it's hardly the level of abuse that would lead to a SS intervention.

The children are generally very high achieving (Eton, Have etc), grade 8 several instruments by the age of 12, national champs in their sports.

They're definitely not allowed out to play football, but they are generally happy and balanced from those I've met.

I realise we are in UK but in Asia it is very normal for children to do several hours of homework/tutoring every night, plus Saturday school.

Exactly allusernames - I think you are bang on point as I suspect there is a cultural difference in play here.
Also not all kids like the cricket pitch and hanging around on their bikes. It’s all jolly and wholesome but (perhaps sadly) there are other distractions these days.
I agree this thread is bonkers and OP is perhaps off staging her intervention

The reality is that everyone has their own ideas and rules.

We have always been a homework first and then fun family whereas I know friends who let their kids "rest" first but sometimes then had problems getting their kids to settle to homework after.

Hello,

I’m a child protection social worker. If you have real concerns of abuse you should either contact your local social care team or the school. Social care will then decide whether to complete a home visit to assess the family and will speak with child and school.

Also, here’s a link to an interesting article on neglect in affluent families, which is closely linked to emotional abuse- the aspect of parenting which you seem concerned about with this child.

www.gold.ac.uk/media/documents-by-section/departments/social-therapeutic-and-comms-studies/Report---Neglect-in-Affluent-Families-1-December-2017.pdf

Well without knowing much and not having read the thread twice (and it looks like I would need to), what is this about anyone being able to call for radical state intervention in a family just because they think so? What about talking to the parents, the school, someone just to find out the context here. OP, don't your children ever cry because they refuse to do something. Why do you feel you have such an authority to decide what is best for the child, are you an expert or they are just going against your grain with the tutoring or teaching (that you would not give to your children, perhaps disadvantaging them in some ways) I know I am being a bit light, but if anyone called social services because they "think" their neighbour is abusing because they rang the bell and the parents would not let the kid play ball in school exams time.... ???? So. I honestly do not know what is the answer here, but hey we need to see this also in the eyes of the OP and any other agendas or influence in the opinion.

Don't worry about needing evidence of abuse, that's for the professionals to deal with. Definitely discuss with nspcc or children's services. We all have a responsibility to report any concerns. That's all they need to be. You raising concerns could be really important to that child's welfare. Please don't worry about contacting services.

This thread is very strange. Tutoring in and of itself could never amount to abuse that would justify removing a child from his or her parents. I don't think anyone who really understands the trauma of being removed from ones parents and being placed into state care could every really think that was appropriate.

The question is if the child is being abused in some other way. If you suspect abuse (unrelated to studying) then report it to professionals (not to the Grammar schools which would be incredibly spiteful).

They will make a determination of your suspicions have any merit or are completely baseless. There is a lot about your posts that doesn't seem like its coming from the right place at all so please reflect on your motivations a bit.

I disagree Londongirl there are some parents who may neglect or emotionally abuse their children in the mistaken belief they are assisting them with education. None of us know the actual facts of this case and if OP is concerned about abuse she shouldn’t be deterred from referring this to Children’s Social Care who will decide whether there is sufficient evidence for an assessment.

Plenty of ‘middle class’ families inadvertently cause mental health issues in their children with unrealistic and developmentally inappropriate academic expectations. If a grammar school needs a child to be working several years ahead, the child isn’t capable of that but parents keep pushing and pushing and denying the child social opportunities, etc, as a Social Worker, I would want to offer the family support and interventions to address this. I agree, it is unlikely to result in statutory interventions or the child being removed from their care but it would be wrong to deter someone from reporting concerns. It is for the Local Authority to decide.

My sister’s DH’s mother banished all four of her DC to the basement to cram for their school leaving exams and competitive entrance to HE. They all did really well!

I loved that one MariaNovelta. Yes life is tough and it takes some effort and that is always a good teaching. And an 11 normally there is enough maturity to deal with the concept of delayed compensation.

The OP was focused on the neighbours' child but I also wonder about the OP's choices about own parenthood style which cannot be ignored for context.

Go teach your children to change the world and earn what they want and need. Do not teach them to moan and moan for what it should be, and it is not. And definitely do not reflect on them your frustrations by pointing at others. After all we do not want to end up all day dreaming about what it should be like.

Maybe (I do not know really but hey who knows about OP's or the other child) the OP's child should spend some more time sitting at the kitchen table in front of books and less time playing ball in the neighbourhood? Who knows. I know what my child would choose but parents are not here to make a child's life easier. If anything, a challenge is usually the better option.