New to U.K. education system....advice needed on school choice

[Humboldthny]

We will likely be moving from the states to the area west of Manchester this summer. Our daughter will be entering Year 11 (our 10th grade) in Fall 2019. From the looks of things, every single school in the area is oversubscribed except for a couple of religious schools which we would prefer to avoid. Very few of the schools we are looking at do you apply directly to the school, the rest are through the council borough. Can anyone provide insight on what happens when all secondary schools are oversubscribed? How do they decide where to assign your child? My husband and I will be traveling to the area to get familiar with the area...I’ll be hopefully visiting schools. What questions might I not know to ask? Our daughter is a very good student in a pre-engineering/advanced mathematics program at a private school (i.e. we pay tuition) here, so I’m concerned about her getting dumped in a low performing school. Thanks for any insight you can provide!

Unfortunately as many mn posters will tell you it's virtually impossible to enter Year 11 in the UK in the state system. This is because the dc are studying for their GCSE exams to be taken in the summer and most of Year 11 is spend finishing the syllabus and sitting mock exams before the real exams from May.
Schools will not accept dc into Year 11. You need to get a lot of advice including finding an American school or an International school.

Can you afford private school un UK? Year 11 is a very difficult point to make the transition (gcse exams are taken in June that year) and it would be very tricky for her to get up to speed unless she attended to a specific type of private intensive college offering fewer subjects in one year. There is little movement until year 12 so those state schools that are already full will usually remain so until then. Otherwise a further education college may allow different vocational one year courses at level 2. Do you intend to stay in UK longer term?

Do you want to confirm that your dd will turn 16 between 1 sep 19 and 31 Aug 2020 so is definitely year 11?
You can search mn for other similar posts re this situation.

Yes as Poppyred says, no state school will want to take a student at the start of year 11.

I agree, try to find an international school or could you look at a private school? That may be a way of starting her in year 10, which is the usual starting point for GCSEs, which are the big set of exams taken at the end of yr 11.

When we moved back to the uk we got a school place for one child but not the other. Technically. The LEA is supposed to find and then allocate you a school place but this was not the case for us and my dd had no place for over three months.

It was not a good start to living here as dd felt very isolated.

Eventually we went through the appeals process for our nearest school on the grounds that it was our nearest school and the LEA couldn't provide her with a place anywhere else. She got a place and started he next day.

She will turn 16 in Nov 2019. Unfortunately no American schools in the area we will be moving and the only Private that shows up in Rightmove searches has 3 students. The school she attends here in the states is significantly more rigorous than public schools (what you call state schools)....which as far as I can tell puts her closer to U.K. schooling levels. While she is in 9th grade here she’s taking math at the 11th grade level. I’ve looked at a number of curriculum pages for schools in question but they are very vague, so it’s been hard to judge just where she is in comparison. We’ve already mentioned to her that she may need to repeat a year, and the idea doesn’t really bother her at all. She’ll just be a bit older than her classmates.

In the UK there are lots of rules on the age of children and their school year, it's not that easy to find a school that will take her in Year 10 if she is Year 11 age, you will have to consider private schools as your main option for this route.

I’ll add that if all goes well with the new job for dh (is that ‘dear husband’ on this board?), we are planning on staying 3-5 years, if not permanently. Dh has a bunch of family in the Bath area and we’ve been talking about trying to do this for the past 20 years....finally his current work situation is providing the opportunity.

My dc was ahead at her overseas school but she'd never done British history or geography. She hadn't learnt french or German. She'd never had an RE lesson.

In the UK, they don't generally stay back a year or skip years. You go in the year you are supposed to be in according to your DOB.

My daughter is in the same year group; she started her GCSE courses several months ago. All of the work she is doing this academic year will be tested in the exams in May/June 2020. By the beginning of Y11 she will have already completed 60% of the GCSE course in each subject.

The content of the GCSE courses is quite specific, and students also get a lot of practice at the technique of answering the style of questions to maximise the number of marks.

If you can find an alternative to your daughter joining the system at the beginning of Y11 (e.g. finding a school willing to let her drop back a year and start at the beginning of Y10) I would do so.

I think you'll need to find a private school and vary your exact location as well as increase your expectations for travelling distance.

There seem to be 4 private schools in the general Manchester area that take the right age range not including the one that has 3 pupils (which will be some kind of ultra specialist provision potentially for severe behavioural issues). Contact them all now, and move near to whichever is most receptive. if none of them co-operate look at boarding schools or postpone the move for a year, or could you let her go to boarding school in the USA for one year then join you when she would qualify for entering a 6th form?

Would you be open to considering online education- either to finish high school or to cram for GCSEs or work towards them now before you move? You may still not get a place in year 11 because the curriculum varies by exam board but you might be able to get her studying the iGCSE curriculum now with an aim to take exams at the 'normal' UK time then do sixth form here.

Most students take 9-10 GCSEs-max two English, Maths, two/three sciences, modern foreign language, geography or history plus two others of choice. Sometimes Religious Studies is a compulsory GCSE. Some schools start the GCSE curriculum for some subjects in year 9 - so they will already have been preparing for the exams for two years by the time your daughter joins in yr11.

We can’t postpone the move and I’m unwilling to send my daughter to a boarding school, either in the UK or in the states. She would be very unhappy in that situation. It’s much more likely that we would try to come to an agreement with her current school to provide distance learning. Private schools in the Manchester proper area are out of our financial reach at nearly triple what we pay here.

Shouldwestayorshouldwego do you have links to online GCSE coursework?

I have friends who are GCSE level teachers and their schools won’t take any new pupils in Year 11. Even if you find a school who would take your DD to start in year 10, she is going to find it very difficult due to the different curriculum. What subjects has she been studying?

Would something like this give you an indication?

here

You can also try the exam boards - there are EdExcel, AQA - google subject + gcse + aqa or EdExcel

EdExcel Maths

This is the course of study from her school...she’s currently in 9th grade honors courses in all core subjects and circled courses indicate her Math progression, Latin level and 2 years of pre-engineering.

Most UK state schools don’t take GCSE Latin but a European foreign language which is studied for five years. English Literature is heavily Shakespeare and a mixture of English classics with the occasional more modern piece.

Humboldthny We were in a similar situation almost exactly a year ago and I posted on Mumsnet and the response was similar and I have to say mostly true.

In addition to the differences in curriculum content, the GCSE exam techniques with the required level of detail, are quite different from any exams we had taken in the states and my DS was also an Honors student.
One difference was that we were looking for private and boarding so we looked at 3 options - American schools in England; UK schools willing to take him in Yr 10 and those that would take him into Yr 11. We found there were not too many willing to have a Yr 11 age boy in Yr 10. We did find a few schools that offered him a place in Yr 11 but could not really articulate exactly how the curriculum content differences gap would be bridged so we were not comfortable with those options. The American schools we looked at were good options but we finally settled on a regular school that offers a special pre GCSE course with reduced subjects - and there are a few of them scattered around the UK I just don't know if any in the Manchester area. We did not look at state day schools so I could not tell you what the options there might be. I will say that you will likely find most of the responses you've received here to be fact and you may have to be creative and flexible in arriving at the final solution - distance learning is an option like you mentioned.

We are really pleased with where we landed and don't regret the move at all! Wish you all the best in your search and feel free to dm me if you require more specifics.

I would ask on the home education board, I don't home educate myself. I think many people use interhigh. The assessment is 100% coursework. I guess that another option is to move here earlier although her choices would be restricted to those currently offered by each school as they will have chosen options in yr 8 or 9.

Latin is unusual and where taken is as an additional language. Does she speak French, Spanish or German? It shouldn't be a problem if distance learning as long as she doesn't want to do languages and goes for A levels rather than the IB - International Baccalaureate. At a school not knowing a modern foreign language would be an issue as it is one of the criteria on which schools are assessed.

Home Education is still somewhat niche in the UK especially at GCSE, often used for children with anxiety/ SEN, but there isn't much red tape. Obviously your difficulty will be socially so maybe some clubs and meeting others who home educate. It might be your best option though as she could start on subjects which she doesn't currently study such as the English language curriculum. If she plans to do sciences then most aspiring scientists will take separate Physics, Biology and Chemistry. Even double science is all three but not as much on each and tends to be taken by those not as interested in the sciences. Most schools offer 10 GCSEs per child. .

Most GCSEs are taken in one exam period May/ June of year 11, Universities look for this, rather than exams taken at different times, although sometimes children take a subject a year early and take the rest all at the end of year 11.

Post on here www.mumsnet.com/Talk/home_ed for home education advice.

Don't rely on rightmove for accurate school information. Have a look at the Independent Schools Council website which has a search facility. You would really need to commit to minimum 3 years to see your dd through education to 18, by which time she could have completed A levels, IB or similar and be ready to apply for uni if that is her choice. Education or training is compulsory until 18 in England. Will the company fund schooling or a relocation agent?

I see below the company won't fund. Would it perhaps be better for you and dc to spend the first year in US and apply for a 6th form place ?

www.ool.co.uk/igcse/maths/

No idea if it will help you at all but I have been looking at igcses - from what I gather there is no coursework element/you can opt out of coursework and you can distance learn/learn from home with an online tutor?
Have not gone down the rabbit hole yet of finding out where test centres are but it would be an option if you yourself were not going to be working. It looks expensive though - 295 pounds per course/exam but a 3000 pound investment is obviously cheaper than 9 grand a term private.
I used to teach in the UK then moved to Germany. We are due to come back soon - I can vouch that there are age-issues attached. Practically all schools will only accept the children into their corresponding birth year and will not consider other options irrespective of how far behind or ahead the children are.
My eldest will be doing her mittlere Reife this year then will need to have that Zeugnis translated to prove she can do A-level. Plus she is 17 in May so will be older than her peers. Add to that her German being stronger than her English, her having no idea what she wants to do at uni/career-wise and that she will have a possible deficit in certain subjects based on how long they study each one here (strangely in Bavaria it is practically AS level but they do ALL subjects). To be honest OP I am scared we are screwing her over coming back but if not now, when.
Anyway, feel free to PM me re schools/areas as I know West Manchester reasonably well (obviously you can look up their Ofsted reports on their websites or online but if you already had an area in mind I might be able to advise). Best of luck

Hi op I know you've said private fees are out of reach. Could you run to a year of a private 'tutorial college' - these are mostly for A levels, but often run one year gcse courses as well. You usually take fewer gcses than the 9/10 that many do in state schools, not a bad thing if doing it all in one year. Not cheap (can be more than 'normal' private school fees, maybe because classes are smaller?) but then you could look at a move into a state school for sixth form.

There are many of these in London, but I think that they may exist in Manchester as well - Abbey? I don't know anything about it - Mancunian mners may be able to comment?