New to U.K. education system....advice needed on school choice

[Humboldthny]

We will likely be moving from the states to the area west of Manchester this summer. Our daughter will be entering Year 11 (our 10th grade) in Fall 2019. From the looks of things, every single school in the area is oversubscribed except for a couple of religious schools which we would prefer to avoid. Very few of the schools we are looking at do you apply directly to the school, the rest are through the council borough. Can anyone provide insight on what happens when all secondary schools are oversubscribed? How do they decide where to assign your child? My husband and I will be traveling to the area to get familiar with the area...I’ll be hopefully visiting schools. What questions might I not know to ask? Our daughter is a very good student in a pre-engineering/advanced mathematics program at a private school (i.e. we pay tuition) here, so I’m concerned about her getting dumped in a low performing school. Thanks for any insight you can provide!

It needs to be an address that she is resident at, so to be honest I would probably all move over in May and then you or dh go back to tidy things up. It would mean missing the end of the school year but if you are committing to the UK system for a few years it shouldn't matter. If you move in May then there is a slightly higher chance that you will get her into a good nearby school. I would identify schools you really like, look at admission criteria (some schools have faith requirements- you may need a letter from your US church if you have one). Move as close to that school as possible but resign yourself to the idea that she may need to travel to a worse school. There is no requirement (especially at secondary) for your child to attend a nearby school. You can however appeal to a nearer school- however that takes time and you really don't want to be doing that once year 10 has started.

There is lots of help on here for appeals. The main thing is that you can't appeal just because you want a better school although we all know that is why many people appeal . You need to appeal because the other school suits her better so a school which has an engineering or Latin club or even offers Latin GCSE is a good reason. She is new in the UK and will need to make local friends might help a little. School X has higher attainment and my dd is able will not help at all. It is probably worth asking on here for recommendations. Once in the school you can move and her place will not be affected although if there were siblings then it might affect their chances of getting a place.

I think I would move as soon as you can, get your school application in immediately so you know where she'll be going and what exam boards she'll be following, then use the 3 months before starting Y11 for her to catch up in key subjects, eg get experienced maths and English tutors at a minimum to see where she's at and fill in some gaps, get the revision guides and get her on BBC Bitesize.

I've just seen its Warrington you are moving to. Not the best area educationally I'm afraid. The University of Chester Academies Trust has just had all its schools taken off it after years of inadequate OFSTED's. You really should also steer clear of the UTC.

As far as I am aware there are not any privste secondary schools in Warrington. The nearset are 7-10 miles away. I have a friend who sent her dd to The Grange but it is very selective and results matter. I'm not sure how condusive they would be to taking someone in Year 11.

It really is a bad time to move I'm afraid. Your dd would have 1-2 terms of teaching before study leave/revision sessions kick in where everyone else has been studying the curriculum for 2-3 years.

I doubt they would skip her to sixth form between between years isn't as flexible here as in the US.
There is St Helens college which takes into pathways at 14 in a special 14-16 unit but when we enquired they had to take at 14 and wouldn't take in year applications.

UTC will take mid year and out of year (Wigan definitely does take out of year) but all of the UTC around that area have very low numbers.
I don't know what Warrington UTC is like but Wigan has a good Ofsted and okay GCSE results but very low numbers of pupils and lost its managing trust recently.
UTC Bolton has okay GCSEs but awful Ofsted and the staff change over has been horrendous.

OP if you are looking at Warrington you should try to get into Lymm High School (outstanding and would imagine oversubscribed) - done on postcode - make sure you move into the correct village.

Have a look at your local colleges, college in England is not university, they mainly cater for 16-18 year olds but also adults and can take people from age 14.

It's unlikely she would be sitting GCSEs other than maths and English, but would do BTEC level 1 followed by level 2 and level 3 courses. It would narrow her choices for uni. Link at the bottom for an engineering degree showing entrance requirements.

If her current school are able and willing to support her then you would technically be homeschooling which is another option.

Unfortunately, I’m not sure we could skip her right to 6th form?

Not a good idea, GCSEs are roughly equivalent to to a US high school diploma, A levels (taken in VI form) allow students to skip 101 courses if they attend uni in the states. The English system (Scotland is different) specialises quite early, starting in year 9, for A Levels most students take 3 subjects, rarely they take 4.

You mention life experience, I'm not sure what the situation is for your dd and a visa but 16 year olds can do apprenticeships and /or work in the UK. (They can also drink alcohol in a pub as long as they are eating a meal and the drink is paid for by someone 18+)

Link to an engineering degree entry requirements

digital.ucas.com/courses/details?coursePrimaryId=f3ef65b0-e365-a37c-309f-a4ab9a2bef2b&academicYearId=2019

Link to BTEC qualifications, the one discussed in the uni page are Level 3 extended Diploma.
qualifications.pearson.com/en/qualifications/btec-nationals/engineering-2016.html

I recognise you dont want either religion or boarding, but Stonyhurst offer GCSEs in a year. Other boarding schools might as well.

GCSEs can be taken in a year if the school is organised for it. (State schools wont be.) They normally make a decision on how many, depending on the pupil, and may limit to core subjects. It is very hard work. The boy we knew took 11, including art, and got 10A*s. So in a great posiiton to move on to a more normal sixth form life. Indeed the sixthform recommended that the family move a year early to make the transition, rather than do it at A level stage.

Op, is there any distance learning she could do from USA so she would finish with the high school diploma?

A few bits you need to fully understand about uk education that I haven't seen mentioned (but I've only skim read so apologies if it's already been said).

GCSEs or equivalent are needed so do not underestimate the importance of the year 11 in school. All college, uni and professional jobs immediately look for gcse in Maths and English plus some will like a spread of other subjects - it's used to be minimum of grade C (a* being best) and it's now changed to number grades, higher the better but minimum 6 (I think, it keeps changing).

To go to college or sixth form to do alevels or a vocational course she can enter at different levels - from what you say she would suit level 3 voc or alevels and she would need min 5gcses grade c/5or6 to meet the entry requirements.
She could do a level 2 or even 1 at college first but she would be bored crazy as they are too easy for her. (I've had students have to do this before in her situation and it's so frustrating for them and us). If I'm honest, it also then doesn't look like they are naturally gifted if they've done a level 1 and level 2 and 3 at college, it looks like they've struggled and worked at it - this could potentially impact a future career.

The gcse course in schools is a y10 and 11 (some even start in y9) as you need the time for the content and courseworks before sitting an exam in it all at the end of y11, most kids will do 9 gcse subjects. Whilst she is in school in America, her subject content will be different - you need to be following the specific course specifications. In USA that specification is dictated by state so everyone in that state does the same content, here each school chooses the awarding board they wish to use, as a result even moving between local schools is an issue as they may have been learning a totally different Syllabus.

Honestly, moving her to a British school for that y11 could be detrimental in the long term - not having the GCSEs in maths and English would mean she also can't then transfer her quals back to the equivalent of a us school diploma either. I can't remember the exact info but I had my quals transferred to Canada and I think my 9gcses were the equivalent of a high school diploma and then my alevels contributed to the university equivalents (happy to be corrected with this as I don't have the info to hand but it was def significant).

I would be seriously looking at any online schools in the USA she can follow in the U.K. or looking at a homeschooling option.
I would also look at just doing the English and maths core as GCSEs here (evening classes /day classes in college etc) to get them signed off (but rules are must be in education until 18 here so might have issues with college agreeing to this).
Then get the high school dip signed off and transferred over as a equivalent qualification for uni application purposes.

Because she knows she wants to do maths and engineering it sounds like she will choose maths and science subjects at A level (they only do 3 subjects at a level ). I think you should seriously consider missing the whole gcse carry on and go straight for A levels/ year12. yes she will be 15 when she starts but actually only 2 months younger than the youngest student (birth dates run sept to aug so the ones born in auguat will just turn 16 a few days before they start A levels. By the sounds of it what she has studied in these subjects is already equivalent to gcse all you need is to get someone to confirm this against her current grades ( Universities do this all the time its quite a simple procedure you might even be able to google it yourself). really in the long run it will save your daughter a lot of stress. she can do A levels at college. some students are a year ahead, it's unusual but it does happen. there is another option and that is an engineering academy where she could do an apprenticeship instead. They may consider her at 15 due to the circumstances. The apprenticeship should not prevent her from going to Uni if she chooses to later. In fact i would be inclined to e mail some university admissions now and put the problem to them. they are often less overworked than the council and are used to foreign students.

Bear in mind though that unless she has lived in UK for 3 years she will have to pay international fees so she might be better going into yr10 than yr 12 and having to wait.

At the moment I’m pretty much ruling out a Y11 entry or a one-year GCSE program. I’m definitely leaning towards trying to find someplace to take her out of cohort in Y10. And if not a brick and mortar, we will look at something like Interhigh. My daughter isn’t overly thrilled about “repeating” a year, but she’s not horrified either. Judging from comments here, I get the feeling the US is far less tied to a strict schooling timeline....there is quite a bit more flexibility here with gap years becoming more common, red shirting for athletics, etc.

My husband should be getting a UK passport (his dad was an English citizen), so we are still trying to work out with his company’s HR what visas, etc. will be needed. There is no timeline for how long we will be overseas. Currently thinking 3-5 years minimum, but we’re also not opposed to staying longer as my husband has quite a lot of family in the UK.

I did find one school while researching today, North Cestrian in Altrincham (is anyone familiar with this school?), that specifically states that will consider taking a student out of cohort. There doesn’t seem to be a lot out there about the school and it seems to have changed designations recently, so no Ofsted available.

There is a very large Manchester Mums Facebook group which will probably have info on the school. I will find the link.

Will your DH be working in Warrington? If so I would be tempted to move Trafford way somewhere and commute to Warrington. The school choice will be much better in general if the LEA just place her somewhere in my opinion!

Well its personal opinion but having two very intelligent, but autistic children (dd got 8's and 9's in her GCSE's which is the very highest grades available) North Cestrian follow the SLANT discipline methods so that would be a big no no for us.

Husband will be working in Irlam...we were hoping to be in Warrington to take advantage of public transit and we could, at least initially, avoid purchasing two cars immediately after moving. We have to drive everywhere where we currently live in the states. But if we have to get two vehicles we will just get a family car and some little beater for hubby to commute in.

Thanks for the info on SLANT....I’d not heard of it, but it won’t particularly be an issue for my daughter. The school she’s been in since 1st grade (Y2) had a very similar expectations.

The UK is more set up for pedestrian life. There are also school buses. It's not a part of the country that I know but most towns will have a bus service. Plus online delivery makes it easier.

We are pretty well set up for buses, trains and teams in most areas around Manchester

Hello! I'm an American mom in the UK with 4 kids. First I'd go join "American expat moms in the UK" group on Facebook. There's a lot of knowledgeable women on there who have made the type of move you're thinking of doing.

I'd pay for a subscription to "good schools guide". Put your probable postcode in and it will give you all the options for whatever radius you want to have. I'd look for anywhere under an hour if you go private. Most private schools will run a huge network of minibuses with the map on their websites.

For what it's worth I've never known 1 single American either personally or through the various groups over the last 10 years who has moved a teen into anything above year 9 into a British state school and not had it be a complete disaster. It's a completely different system and way of teaching and very different expectations. It's a deeper but far narrower curriculum. State schools here aren't funded to anywhere near the level they are in the US. The resources just aren't there. I understand you're trying to give your daughter an interesting life experience but I'd consider it very carefully. There have been lots of people over the years with teens so miserable they have begged to go back to the US and live with friends and family.

I have seen it work where the child enters year 10 in a private school with a decent international cohort of students and solid pastoral care. Schools here vary in a way that they just don't in the US. There is a huge range of ethos here. If you can find it you can find the right fit.

Feel free to PM me if I can help. Good Luck!

I feel that Interhigh might be your best bet, so that your daughter isn’t dealing with all the new challenges at once. She would have more time to work on the academics (they have a shorter school day) and not have to deal with the intense social culture shock at the same time.

Years 10 and 11 do seem particularly awful these days - my dd is in year 10 and everything has ramped up since September. My usually laid back daughter has had lots of meltdowns.

I’m hoping that sixth form will be better, with fewer subjects to juggle.

I would strongly recommend you look for a school for your daughter for 6th form (year 12). I looked at the location for the IB school in Liverpool I mentioned up thread and it's only 30 mins drive from Warrington. There will be public transport. The advantage of IB is there are more likely to be international students/parents, some staff will be overseas trained, your DD can transfer back into the US system if it all goes tits-up (to use a local expression!) and as it's 6 subjects rather than 3, it's slightly more similar to the US. Plus the course content will acknowledge the existence of the US. It would be a shame for your DD"s "life experience" to be failing academically for the first time...

Secondly, as no-one else has said so directly, you are aware that Warrington is an area with a lot of poverty? That means state schools have got few resources to accommodate anything out of the ordinary, as they are already dealing with a lot of problems. However, it's near the M6 motorway so there's the possibility your family could consider locating somewhere like Cheshire with more options for schools and more options for your DD socially if you're thinking about online/home education.

I think you may be surprised how close everything is together in the UK and how much public transport there is. I imagine you are already getting an inkling of how prescriptive and overly varied our school system is.

Finally, your FIL holds a British passport. There's no such thing as an English one.

Please please listen to the last two posters OP. I live north of Manchester not Warrington but further north. Train commute is 60mins when they work but that's another story. I have a current year 11 son. He and his class mates have just about finished the course work and are now into revision proper . Think 2 -3 hours per night every night plus week ends. He had Christmas day and New Years day off. He's due to sit 27 exams in May & June over 4 weeks. He needs to know his subject the wrong way round and upside down to even hope to get a 6 the old grade b. He started studying in year 10 and he and his class mates are all struggling to cope with the massive course content required by the new GCSE brought in 2 years ago. To give you an example English lit requires two novels A Christmas Carol by Dickens and Animal Farm by Orwell and Shakespears Macbeth plus 20 poems . All need to be know inside out. The poems generally by English poets need to be known by heart and they need to be able to directly quote from all the other texts 15 to 20 quotes. They can't take texts into the exam. This is for one exam now times that by 5 ,8,10 however many GCSE that's what your daughter would need to cover. Sixth forms the good ones normally ask for a minimum grade 6 to study an a level in the subject especially sciences and maths. All a level students must have a pass grade 4 in English and maths even if they are not planning to carry on with this. Oh and application deadlines for most are now for next September. What I'm trying to say is your daughter however bright is very unlikely to be able to get the results she deserves even starting in year 10 and this will impact on her A level or BTEC choices. I really would advise.trying to keep her in the American system untill after gcse level. I would also check with local 6th from collages if they would admit with an american equivalent if you do. Fewer and fewer in the North of the North West are school based so the school's you are looking at may not have any a level provision. You obviously care a lot about her future but the current English exam system is a test of endurance for pupils parents and teachers which has lead to many schools starting exam sylubus in year 9 to get through the new content.

Have a look at the Queen's School, Chester. It is an independent day school with a strong academic record. As a day school, the fees are a fraction of the day fees at a boarding school. It is half an hour from Warrington. Chester is a lovely Cathedral city. - your husband could commute and you could live in Chester. My guess is that they could advise you on starting Y11 in September. They may even be able to provide you with details on the GCSE exam boards they use and what they cover in Y10, so that your daughter can do some self-study over the next 8 months, to make sure she is ready for the Y11 course in September. All exam boards publish curriculum details, past exam papers and marking criteria online.

My daughter goes to school in Chester. Its a lovely area and schools there on the whole both state and private are much better than Warrington.

Bridgeofthefuture - just to say that WIGAN UTC has now announced that it is closing in August 2019