Dropping Art GCSE?

[emMo13]

DD wants to drop art GCSE because she feels the workload is too high and she doesn’t have enough time to revise for other subjects. DD is a procrastinator but has recently started to get down to it and has now realised she’s started too late. I have been telling her she needs to get her finger out for since half way through year 10, but to no avail. Maybe it’s my shoddy parenting. Regardless, I’m willing to accommodate her wishes because I don’t think that not letting her drop it out of spite is going to achieve anything at this point. I’m 100% sure that if DD replaced the time she was spending doing art, she’d do incredibly well at the rest of her subjects (she has 10 others, and did RE last year), since she spends days on it and nothing else. Yes - it’s a time management thing when it comes to art (I’ve been blasted about that before) but she insists that if she had to do it to a passable quality she’d still spend a significant amount of time on it and there’s no point spending that time just to get a 4 or a 5. Thoughts? Has anyone ever dropped art so late?

That sounds fairly sensible teen.

I've made study booklets for my subject for students who have to be out of school for whatever reason (made to cover someone on long term absence & kept for future).

I have to confess I have very little trust that the stare at revision guides approach (which often happens in these situations with a range of ability students) is particularly beneficial, which raises questions about use of curriculum time if the aim is to improve other subjects. I give anyone with extenuating circumstances one of those to work through, but I wouldn't be impressed if school told me I had to start creating material on top of my own teaching to fill gaps for students who've started dropping subjects.

Maisy it's the blanket refusal to consider dropping a subject in the absence of 'extenuating circumstances' which I find rigid and unimaginative. That was the line immediately taken above, by the two teachers then posting on the thread.

Schools I have worked at would not allow a subject to be dropped under these circumstances.
It sets the precedent that anyone can drop a subject if they find the workload too much. And it wouldn’t be appropriate for a student to be doing other revision in that classroom unless all the students were given the option to drop whichever subjects they wanted to.

We do allow a few to drop, where for example there is extreme anxiety and medical professionals have advised it as part of a course of treatment (this is becoming more frequent). Or a student who is bombing in multiple subjects and it’s to manage a difficult situation. We would definitely not allow a student to drop if it was a case of getting a 5 among all the other 8s/9s. We would however help set up slots with the department to help her catch up.

greathat Y11 students don't require individual babysitiing. These kids are 16, not 6.

Actually even at 16 they have to be supervised full time by a member of staff. Not at 17 though. So dropping additional subjects in the sixth form, while it’s certainly something to discuss, is a lot more straightforward.

It worked well for DD, but the extenuating circumstances were big. No way would I have expected other teachers to set additional work.

(I'm waiting with interest to see options for y9 DD2, as a big part of me is minded to think she should drop an option before she starts, but I'm not sure school will think she is needy enough.)

Not individually at all times Cauliflower.

No, not individually in a 1:1 situation - I didn’t mean that. But they do need to be supervised at all times, yes. During school hours staff are responsible for them throughout the day.

I remember having a horrible case of cystitis and my doctor suggesting I just walk out of class to go to the loo when needed as they are secondary level so will be ok for a few minutes. Absolutely no way would that be allowed.

If one was to hurt herself or any kind of incident no matter how minuscule were to happen the very first question would be “where was the staff member in charge!”

TTT - the issue will be the supervision.

The problem here really is that schools would be perfectly happy to allow everyone to do the subjects and exams they like when they like if it wasn’t for the fact that in a typical year group of, say, 200 kids all doing about 12 GCSEs you have a timetable trying to manage nearly 2 and a half thousand entries and the same number of grades to analyse and subjects to teach. Schools are massive institutions doing their best with limited funds and while we would all prefer to have à la carte curriculums and rules unfortunately it’s pretty much a set menu situation unless there is a really serious issue.

I can't leave a class of year 11 unsupervised! I'd feel even worse about leaving an individual year 11 on their own! We have a duty of care - we can't just leave them

it's the blanket refusal to consider dropping a subject in the absence of 'extenuating circumstances' which I find rigid and unimaginative. That was the line immediately taken above, by the two teachers then posting on the thread

I posted in good faith to explain what would (or wouldn’t!) happen in the schools I’ve worked in to try to help the OP. I haven’t said what I think should happen (because it doesn’t matter as SLT, not teachers, make those decisions). I certainly haven’t refused to consider it. Yet I’ve been called ‘rigid and unimaginative’ by one poster and accused of having a ‘poor attitude’ by another.

‘Goady’ might be a better description of some of the posters here.

Odd that some schools are still following the path of more than 10 GCSEs in one sitting.
Anyway pragmatically I would suggest that she should be withdrawn from taking the GCSE but still attend and do art work during the timetabled art lessons. No need for her to do any outside the lessons though so that frees up homework / revision time for her other subjects.
If the DC was only doing 9 GCSEs say and had no extenuating circumstances I understand that ‘giving up’ a subject sends the wrong message to other students. However if a mixed ability school is making students do 12 GCSEs they will inevitably have to deal with the consequences of overloading / stressing some students at the expense of their overall grades.

Cauliflowersqueeze
Very well put.

MsJaneAusten
I totally agree.
It's rigid and unimaginative all the way through the thread. Outlining things to consider is proving that schools say no and clearly don't provide a good education compared to a highly selective. Pointing out that good school leadership means SLT thinking about all those angles for their contexts is apparnetly making obvious statements, but then SLT should also have considered every possible option even ones that aren't directly relevant to their context just in case someone wants something different.
Give examples where schools have shifted things around extenuating circumstances and that's also not enough.
Its a very bizarre argument.

Maisy it's the blanket refusal to consider dropping a subject in the absence of 'extenuating circumstances' which I find rigid and unimaginative.
So schools that don't allow students to drop subjects in y11 as and when they want to see rigid and unimaginative? Right. Ok.

This is slightly (ok, very) off topic but I've known several cases where the dc has decided not to do art gcse because it's rumoured to be a huge amount of work - and it does sound as though objectively speaking it's more work than many other gcses. The same is said of the A level, incidentally.

So my question is, if that's widely recognised, why don't the exam boards just change the syllabus/requirements so that it's more evenly matched to other gcses? Seems a pity that people are put off doing it for that reason.

Back to the op, 11/12 is a lot of gcses! and unnecessary for most career options (is medicine an exception where quantity of a* s may get you more points? I don't know.) So I, contrary to most pp, would say that any student who is doing that many and finding it too much should be allowed to drop the 'extra'. I've known a slightly similar policy with add maths - I've known a couple of schools that do it but accept that anyone who wants to can drop out. (which quite a few do!)

Yes that creates the 'babysitting issue' but if school has a policy of 11/12 gcses, over to it to have a library supervisor or similar for the consequential drop outs.

MaisyPops checking back through the thread I see that I used the phrase rigid and unimaginative once, at 9.24pm last night, to describe a certain mindset in schools, in other words twenty four hours into the thread and my original contribution. You then used the phrase three times. I then repeated it once and MsJane copied and pasted one of the two sentences where I'd used it.

On balance, you therefore seem to been the net contributor of the phrase which has been brought into play for far less than half of the time the thread has been current.

And on your other points: I do prefer the more flexible approach to this sort of thing yes and saying that it can and does happen doesn't mean it should happen without proper consideration. But it doesn't and wouldn't.

sendsummer I don't think any schools are taking twelve or thirteen reformed GCSEs. I think eleven is the tops as standard with the move being towards ten tops as standard and many schools are doing fewer still.

That tally is down to the post which prompted me to look back over the thread, in which you use the phrase twice more. In my reply post I've used it once, to explain what I was counting.

So it's now five to you MaisyPops, three to me, and two copy and pastes which don't count.

I think.

Bowing out now. CBA to feed the troll. I have books to mark, lessons to plan and my own DC to enjoy the last few days of the holiday with.

@MaisyPops - good work. You had much more patience than I did in explaining how most state schools work.

@OP - I hope things work out for your DD

!!!!

Goodbyestranger yes but the school in the OP does a 12th GCSE in year 10. IMO the time taken for a 12th subject in year 10 will tip the overload balance for some, especiallly if doing 11 subjects in year 11.

Iwantedthatname19 I agree. From what I hear though some art teachers contribute to piling on demands for extra work so it does depend on how the syllabus is taught.

sendsummer the view I've expressed throughout the thread is that given the numbers of reformed GCSEs involved, dropping Art would be an easy hit. Before these new exams I tended to think eleven or twelve of the easier exams at least allowed breadth for students, given the relative lack of depth, but I'd say ten of these new ones was ample.

Some schools simply find it very hard to alter mindset rapidly after any externally imposed change. I won't use the phrase which springs to mind :) That was clear with AS (when I recall being slated for saying they'd wither within two to three years).

Both mine did the Scottish equivalent of GCSE Art. It is a lot of "work", however both of mine spend literally hours a day drawing for relaxation. So for them doing Art as a formal subject gave more direction to their leisure time and more focused relaxation. If DC don't have this view of Art then I think it would be a slog and probably best avoided.

The other end of the spectrum is perfectionism. The more proficient of my DC had to be persuaded not to put half her portfolio in the bin and start again as she was not happy with it. She got almost full marks for it and in her case it was a valuable lesson in working to a brief as opposed to for herself.

In the Op's case I think it a pity that the DD was ever persuaded to do 12 GCSEs in the first place. Once mine are overwhelmed it is difficult to persuade / motivate them to do anything at all.

Very surprised by the comments re schools not allowing pupils to drop subjects. I am surprised dropping from 11 to 10 creates a supervision issue as I would have anticipated that anything above 9 would be effectively compressed / off timetable and so there would be capacity to rejoin core classes for "spare" lessons?

Yes I remember the threads on the dire consequences of dropping ASs .

MsJaneAusten
Sometimes it's as much to provide information for anyone reading. As another poster said, the types of schools and situations outlined by a few of us on this thread are much more typical for most state schools.
I know I've read some threads seeking information and advice without commenting. At least there's a number of examples from multiple on a typical comprehensive school approach yo subjects.

how
I'm intrigued as to how the school have fit 12 into the timetable, assuming a standard day.
My school does 10 as typical and for those who don't do an MFL. There's a couple of other pathways for different circumstances.
To get 12 our students have to opt to do extra curricular GCSEs such as general studies, some level 2 performing arts etc or an MFL in their other language (if they have anotjer language spoken at home.