11+ process has to change...

[Gorobe]

Dd took 11+ test at Wimbledon High last week. Sadly dd didn’t pass first stage. I suspect she did ok but not well enough to get through to the second round. Although dd is not highly academic, dd is an all rounder. She throws herself at sports, music and drama. She spends a few hours every week training. She loves it and is especially good at swimming and music. She has a full and well balanced life but now that she didn’t pass, I’m wondering if we should have spent all those extra hours revising instead? I know her friends who got through to second stage have tutors and definitely do lots more revision after school. I didn’t realise it’s that competitive! We don’t have a tutor. I believe she has done enough at school and comes home with an hour of homework everyday. My dd is bright, her scores at school are good albeit not the strongest but she’s creative and full of curiosity and drive. WHS advised against tutoring and yet they have put girls who have been heavily tutored through to the next stage. We have a few more weeks to go before dd sits for more tests in Jan. I’m panicking and think I need to find dd a tutor but don’t even know where to start. Does this mean there’s no place for well rounded children in 11+? How can schools even tell that these academically ‘gifted’ children have been tutored? Schools should look closely at children who have invested time in equally healthy pursuits. If my dd had spent more time revising, I’m sure she would have passed first stage. But is this what senior schools want from children? Am I too late in finding dd a tutor?

Granmar schools aren't for well rounded children, they are for highly academic children. The top of the cohort in academic ability. They care not one bit how talented your child is in swimming, sports and music. My DD passed the 11+ this year. She's exceptionally bright, but struggles to throw a ball competently and still can't ride a bike or swim. None of those things matter to the school.

@Gorobe - it's tough. The schools all say don't tutor but the reality is almost everybody does.

DD1 did the 11+ a few years ago (now Year 10) and amongst her friends (from a State Primary) I cant think of anyone who didn't see a tutor beforehand. Most went for a year beforehand for an hour a week.

DD1 is bright but what she learnt from the tutor was primarily exam technique. For instance how to time herself in an English exam, how to write in a way that would impress.

When you say you didn't tutor what do you mean? If you did exam practice at home but didn't pay a tutor that's arguably still tutoring. If you didn't do any practice at home then you did miss a trick.

But you can definitely make things up if you get some practice papers and work on them between now and January.

The other thing most people did was to get DC to sit a mock test (Sutton Grammar it similar) in the spring before the actual exams to get them used to an exam environment. I'd highly recommend this for anyone thinking about 11+ in future years.

I don't think the 11+ process has to change just because your daughter didn't pass. Grammar schools aren't for well rounded kids, they're for the brightest.

The school OP is referring to isn't a grammar - it's an independent (Wimbledon High School).

Grammar schools aren't for well rounded kids, they're for the brightest.

Grammar schools are not for the brightest, tbh (or rather, they don't admit the brightest). They admit a selection from the adequately bright (ie there is a lower limit below which they won't pass, however well prepared) who are the best prepared, whether through preparation at primaries - usually private - who specialise in preparation; paid-for tutoring; or home preparation.

Absolutely exceptional children may need less preparation BUT from my observation it is an 'arms race', whatever the schools say - even the brightest children are increasingly highly prepped for the 11+.

Isn't WHS an independent school? I took absolutely no notice of those heads that said don't tutor or 'we use an untutorable test'. It's rubbish - in London you are up against some of the most competitive parents in the world. I think it's disingenuous of them to say not to tutor as some people, like yourself, won't and it puts your child at a serious disadvantage. These parents are leaving nothing to chance hence the multi million pound tutoring industry. My ds was group tutored for a year but is still well rounded, musical and sporty. Being tutored doesn't mean you have to forego everything else (although some do!).

There are lots of very naturally bright kids out there but the 11+ is a test with a particular technique which combines speed plus accuracy. The Eleven Plus Exams Forum is a very good, if a bit intense, resource. Good luck!

Rather than raging at the system I would direct your rage at your prep school (assuming you are at one if you are getting one hours homework a night). Why didn't hey prep her for the local indie senior schools? Are they a school that goes up to 18 and so had no interest in sending pupils elsewhere?

The fact is to get into any selective school, state or private, you need some practice on the type of questions to be answered and the speed you need to complete the papers. If you want a realistic shot at January exams you need to get the relevant practice books from amazon or Whs or wherever and do one hour a day between now and then. A bit every day means it will be second nature by the time of the exams. Good luck!

Easier to prepare academically than to prove your child is a good all rounder with the costs of extra curricular activities and transporting them to said activities as a single working parent. I paid less than £10 for a practice test book that my DC worked through independently. DC passed the eleven plus and easily got a high enough ranking to be offered a place at our local grammar.

You have my sympathy but WHS is a very academic, highly selective school and you say your DD is not highly academic, so would this school have been a good fit for her. Schools like Emmanuel do really value children’s extra curricular activities, and other schools are less selective but still really good options. Rejection at the age of 10/11 is brutal but I’d be inclined to take a philosophical view if you can and hope that you find a school that is a good fit for your DD. Good luck

WHS operate a 2 stage system because admittance is extremely competitive and they can't interview everyone, so they have first stage which is entirely academic before inviting the girls in. You say yourself your DD isn't overly academic, so the test is essentially doing its job.

Does your current prep not offer any advice? It's pretty well known how insane the London private school circuit is!

If she's not the academic now then it's unlikely that school would have been a good fit. If you aren't willing to tutor/help when she hits rough spots as she progresses then none of the properly selective london schools are a good idea. Do you have any non-selective or less selective independents as back-ups? Or a are you happy with the comp you're in catchment for?

You could look for an intensive tutoring camp over the winter break but you've left it realllllly late and may not get a space. I think you need to really look closely at how well not only your daughter fits a school but how well it fits your ethos. The wrong fit can lead to a lot of misery for everyone.

Your other option is to send her to a prep that goes through to year 9. They will prepare her for common entrance otherwise known as the 13+. It would give her a few years to prepare.

I honestly wouldn't worry about it too much. There are lots of schools and only a few get an offer from every school they apply to. It's only because WHS have changed their admissions this year that it seems brutal. In January/ February children will be getting offers/ interviews/ rejections etc and everyone will end up somewhere.
WHS is full of bright girls who also do huge amounts of extra - curricular etc, they have to have a cut off somewhere.
I wouldn't worry about the tutoring too much- just do some practice papers at home. If your DD is getting an hours homework a day I'm guessing she's at a prep school so she is probably getting 'tutoring' there in a way. It's mainly state school children who have tutors around here as they have no help at school.

Tbh you will always do better if you have spent time familiarising yourself with what the question style and understanding what they are looking for.

I had to do tests not that dissimilar with content to 11+ (verbal and non verbal reasoning, maths, sentence correction etc) but obviously at a much higher level for a post grad course. I am naturally bright and am well educated so could have a good go but was doing a great deal better once I was familiar with it and understood the way they were looking at things. And so I think without tutoring or parental help it will be much harder to pass 11+ exams.

WHS like many selective independents all do their own "11+" based upon VR, NVR, English Essays, Maths, Science, interviews. Some do a couple of papers, some do all, or their own special mix. It is not really the 11+, as in grammer entrance, that you are doing.

If you are at a prep school, your DC shouldn't have a problems with these types of tests, as they will have been doing them all their lives, and certainly in the ones I know they ramp up the revision of these especially in time for the indie school examinations. So, I haven't seen that tutoring is big in these schools. I am sure we all do some books at home, but that is not tutoring, just practice.

It is a shame you daughter didn't get accepted in the first cut. That is not to say she isn't bright, or talented, but just that she doesn't fit WHS. Many of us have been there, you don't get an offer for your first choice, but my goodness, you may well end up at the perfect school for your child. IME indie schools are pretty good at picking the right candidates for their school. Get you DD to do some books over xmas, but don't make it the be all and end all. I am sure she will succeed wherever she goes.

When we visited the school, WHS came across as a well balanced school which is one of the reasons why dd loved it. Dd has always done well in her prep school so she is fairly academic. Her scores are always above average in her class for all subjects but sadly we now know this not good enough.

It’s ironic when schools consistently insisted that we should not tutor nor over teach our children yet they reward those who do. I appreciate WHS have hundreds of applicants.
Perhaps they should take in a wider range of children through to their second stage? For dd’s friends who got through to second round, ironically WHS is not even their main choice of school. The whole process is really quite insane. It’s a shame that the first test paper dd did was for the school she liked the most.

Thank you all for your advice; there are some very constructive feedback here. Failing WHS is certainly a wake up call and we are stepping up! I’m sure the right school is waiting for dd. We’ll be practicing lots of papers over Christmas. Oh joy!

Having been through the WHS process I think that the NVR/VR actually favours the less tutored as tutors around here in particular only do maths and English. When DD went through it there was a real mix of who got through and many who got Putney, G&l etc didn't get WHS offers and vice versa. Many of the prep schools around here also say WHS offers are the hardest to predict.
I don't think the new 1st round makes much difference to be honest- I'm sure before they automatically discounted the bottom half as well.
A great school for your DD will be out there- where else are you applying?

"Gorobe", do you have a back up school where your preps feels you will certainly get a place? If so focus on that with your dd, if you post the name or area located we can suggest entrance exam papers on school websites that you can practice for that level but to be honest your Prep should be guiding your dd through this and focusing on exam technique, spelling lists & challenging maths problems at this late stage in the term. Make sure your dd reads an inspiring novel over Christmas that she can talk about with passion. ie Hitler's Canary by Sandi Toksvig.

WHS is a high achieving school for highly academic & talented dd's. It's no big deal to not make it past the first stage as long as the other schools you have registered with are at differing levels of entrance ability.

SW London entrance exams are a challenge for all and each year there are disappointed parents & prep school heads surprised at the increased competition.

In the past WHS interviewed nearly all applicants, but numbers have increased so massively (due to new and popular head?) that they have to cut off somewhere. JAGS have done the same.

From my Year 6 girls last year, quite a few of my bright, but not intensively tutored girls got through the JAGS pre-test, while the heavily tutored but not actually brilliant didn’t make the first cut.

winterishereithink - We are also applying to Surbiton High, G&L and Notting Hill and Ealing.

Granmar schools aren't for well rounded children, they are for highly academic children

Maybe round your way, not mine. Which is a full grammar county. My DC are both at grammars which are interested in and celebrate the whole child, not just academia. I think it’s very different in a full grammar county where the top 25% attend.

That's a good spread of schools. Surbiton High has got more competitive I hear but last year everyone I know who applied there from our school got in and everyone I know who went there is very happy.

Sadly I agree that in London at least it is totally disingenuous for the heads of grammars and of selective independents to play the “ you don’t need tutoring”tune. It is an arms race with hyper competitive and motivated parents priming their kids at least a year in advance. A poor unprepared DC is at an immediate disadvantage. In all-grammar areas such as Kent ( away from the London borders) ie my old grammar in east Kent, being in top 25% at primary might well be sufficient but not round here.
DS is in a London super selective and at open day the head said “ if your child is in say the top 3 of his class, that’s the child we are looking for , you don’t need any “ fancy” tutoring” ( whatever that is)! Everyone nodded politely, no one believed it. DS has found out since attending that most of his classmates were intensively professionally tutored or went to prep schools where there is preparation for the grammar school tests.

For SHS really focus on the "all about me" part of the exam. At home go over all your dd's interests again & again so she lists them all to you eg hockey, swimming, choir, guides, class eco monitor, etc. Talk about what she wants to be later in life, ie doctor, teacher, lawyer because "i love helping people" etc. Focus on SHS 6 super sports and talk about what an experience it would be to be in a gym or skiing team. When you pick her up from the exam you want her to say, "yes mum i completed the last paper and mentioned all the things we talked about". There was a new question last year about challenges or what you find difficult, I can't remember but someone else will.

FWIW I’ve sat on the train next to a bunch of SHS girls on a few occasions and they always struck me as positive, well mannered and no bitching or obsessing about makeup etc. Gosh that sounds judgemental but there it is.