Y7 (11) DS being incredibly oblivious and naive...

[obliviousboy]

DS has just started new school. He is outgoing, sporty and loves his friends. He's also very empathetic and caring - he can't ignore anyone who is upset or feeling sad. He doesn't sound unpopular one, does he? However, he has tendency to be rejected by his peers.. I don't know what it is. It could be because of his immaturity in some areas. He is a summer born, just to add more info.

I have a few concerns over his social issues, but what's bothering me most is that he doesn't seem to be aware of any negativity around him. For instance, when someone is obviously very mean to him, he doesn't realise it and says nice things about them, and even refers them as a good friend. This happened at primary school too. Some people told me DS was being bullied or teased, yet DS didn't seem to know about it and kept telling me they were kind, then many months or even a year later he realised they were actually mean!

Today he went to school happily, telling me how nice all other boys were. But I happened to talk to a school staff and now I know the reality is not what he seems to think! No one wanted to pair up with him in a class, etc. He seems to be incredibly oblivious... This naivety worries me a lot.

Now, knowing what happened at primary school is happening again at new school, I am wondering if there is any unseen problem on DS's side, and worrying if it'll end up shadowing his sunny nature... Is there anything I can do to help the situation? Should I consider talking to SEN (no suggestion from school)? Any advice and suggestions would be greatly appreciated...

Thank you, Wolfiefan.

I ruled it out due to his sociable and outgoing nature.

That's how I felt too - I had an image of autistic people as preferring to be on their own and not really wanting to be sociable, but my nephew is not like that at all! He loves company and talking to people, he just doesn't quite understand the rules.

Of course I don't want to diagnose your son but the way you were describing him made he think "Oh, he sounds just like S"

@obliviousboy the reason I described the school DS went to is that it had a lot of boys like your son. There was something about the single sex, size (so easy to find your tribe) and high academic standards. A school with 13+ entrance would have a lot of new starters and he could make a fresh start. Maybe go and have a look without him and see if you recognise his people!

HPFA, I know what you mean. I was actually aware there were many different forms of autism so knew they wouldn't necessarily look like 'typical'. So I won't rule it out. I've just emailed school if we could talk to senco or any appropriate person at school.

Etino, DH is away this week so I emailed him and he replied we would look at 13+ in case things may not improve. We have a few in our mind but will research more and possibly make a visit. Thanks for the flower.

Can I just say, your son sounds like a really lovely lad!!

faw2009, thank you so much for your kind words. He is a really lovely lad for his mother's eye..

Your Ds sounds wonderful, OP. Sorry you’re going through the stress though.

My Ds is 12 and one of the oldest in his year. He also often comes home stating that such and such laughed at him being knocked over by other dc, he then describes this dc as a ‘good friend’ There have been many other instances to and I have discussed whether in fact this person is really a good friend. Doesn’t seem to sink in though and I have to step back and hope that he will see for himself.

It’s very hard. Ds is the kind of person who possibly lacks the social skills that most of his peers seemed polished in. He also plays the game you mentioned but always wants it to be fair and on his terms. This soon turns into the opposite and he can’t understand why others are doing things within their game which are against the rules!

It’s hard.

It seems that the school your Ds attends are on the ball though. Hopefully this is the case.

Above all else your Ds seems like such a lovely young man and I’m sure in time he will find his place. How lovely to have such a sunny nature and to see the good in everyone.

RockYourSocksOff , thanks for your kind post and to you and your DS. I understand your frustration. It's so hard when DS cannot see other's negative intention and if I dare point it out he defends them and thinks I am the mean one to think like that! And even when he finally realises they've been mean to him, he always forgives them believing there's a reason for them to act like that. I can see why other 'smarter' boys take advantage of him. He can look so foolishly naive, and so easy to tease. It was painful to watch at primary school, but now he's at senior school that I cannot witness what's going on but I know something is going on and this guessing game makes me sleepless. A problem is I can't trust the happy news he delivers once back home.

I got a reply from school. They wouldn't think any meeting with school nurse/SENCO would be necessary at this stage. They said they would agree with my judgements of DS's social skills. However, they believed a lot of the issues DS is going through right now would be linked to starting a new school, his age and being a healthy active young boy, therefore his socialisation skills would continue to improve as he settles at school...

Hmmm. Whilst you may not need to see SENCO I would expect some mention of what they/you can do to support him. Sounds a bit of a brush off.
And it can take a while to settle in Y7 but it is easier if they are appropriately supported.

They said they could arrange a meeting with SENCO if we feel it's needed strongly. They also said they would watch how DS would be (with the gentle one's help..) next few days/weeks.

I am thinking whether I should push the meeting with SENCO. Half of me feel no need if school thinks so, but half of me feel wanting a closure of my doubt.

We were very close to look into his possible condition a couple years ago. I had a meeting with his class teacher to discuss his impulsiveness and she suggested I would take him to GP. GP said he couldn't see any wrong in DS but if school raised voice test could be proceeded. I went back to the class teacher and she suggested she would introduce star charts and see if any improvement could be seen. We decided if no improvement was made, school would push testing process forward. However, DS managed to stay much calmer and kept himself under control as he wanted to collect stars which led a conclusion that his impulsive behaviour was his choice rather than something he couldn't control therefore no testing would be needed.

However I often looked back and wondered what would have happened if I had requested testing him more firmly.

Any chance his tutor could be more involved? Any mentoring possibilities at school or clubs he could join?
I’ve been a teacher and sometimes we would alert subject teachers to something parents had raised. Maybe feedback could go to tutor from subject teachers in a few weeks?
It doesn’t have to jump to SENCO necessarily. Is he happy at school?

Ds1 has just been diagnosed with autism, he is 13 and has many similarities with your son, especially not realising when people are being mean. It took 3 years from first appt with community pediatrician so it is worth going to go and school of you have concerns.

I would also email his tutor , ds 's form tutor has been amazingly supportive of ds2 and really helped him settle in yr 7.

Good luck

Supportive of ds1 that should say

Good point... They actually asked me if I would like them to inform my concerns to the director of studies as well as school nurse. I would say yes. It would be good to hear feedback from different views.

DS was given a mentor but it seemed to last only one day and I have't heard his name from DS since...

DS says he likes school. But it's a school with good reputation. DS may be thinking he should like the school. He doesn't know how other school would be like.

missmapp, OK I will push this forward. If he is diagnosed I would be relieved that I cold give him right support at last, and if it turns out he isn't autistic, then at least I can clear my doubt.

I also wondered about dyspraxia from your posts. My DP is and is also not always great at picking up social cues. Is also clumsy, but then capable of random stuff that is relatively heavy on the fine motor skills.

Might be worth reading through the symptoms of dyspraxia in adults from the Dyspraxia Foundation, which covers the social elements.

Thank you for your post, EduCated. I read the page you suggested. I could see some can apply to DS but at the same time many don't. For instance, he has great ball control, can ride a bike/scooter (but not great at penny board), plays musical instruments with great separate hand coordination, good at handling small objects, his memory is also quite exceptional (can memorise sonata/concerto without effort). However, seemingly unaware of surroundings and space around him that often causes him hitting and bumping and knocking things, very impulsive, his speech is quite immature, can be sensitive with noise, light, touch and taste, may not be good at working in a large group though he likes team sports, poor hand writing, etc, can be ticked. I feel he has something, but not sure what. Could be dyspraxia, adhd, asd or mix of some...

Just to note about his relationship with others.

He likes kids at his age and older. He also happily plays with younger ones though he seems to prefer older kids if he has a choice. However I feel he seems to be more rejected by kids at his age, or those who are mentally mature (autumns born) and I don't feel he's not particularly liked by older ones nether. But younger ones usually like him and wants to play with him. DS may not be keen at the beginning, then once they start playing he happily continues to play with them, and normally less problem when he plays with younger ones. He seems to be immature in some areas and clicks well with younger kids for that reason.

I think you have been brushed off by tutor. What's happening here is NOT ok. Push for more. Ask for a phone call appointment with tutor, ASAP.

Or better still, email. Put it in writing. tell them you are NOT happy. and ask for an appointment with tutor, HoY and senco. That will really put the cat amongst the pigeons. And then at least you'll have a paper trail = documentary evidence!!

OP, I don't have any advice because my DD is tiny, but I just wanted to say you sound amazing and I'll be rooting for you and your son.

Oblovov18, thanks for your post. I have requested a meeting by email but haven't heard back from them yet. I'm going to school this Friday for something else, so if I haven't heard from them by then, I'm going to pop in the office to chase up. What do you mean 'what's happening here is NOT ok'? His behaviours or the situation he is in among other DCs? Do you also think he sounds like he has something to explain his awkward social situation?

Rainatnight, thank you so much for popping in to say nice things. People here are so kind. It gives me strength.

Sorry, not ok, as in schools response.
At the end of the day this boy is having a few problems struggling socially, even if he doesn't really realise it!
cos his current sweetness and naivete is actually a problem and he doesn't see that.

and even if he does have ASD or any sort of needs, that is kind of irrelevant: if he does or he doesn't have SN, the school should still be caring and supporting him and doing their very best to rectify this.

So, when I say it's not okay, I mean the school - is just dismissing you in a flippant and blasé way and what they are doing is not good enough.

I wouldn't leave it till Friday. I'd send another email today saying you haven't yet had a response.

My 11 year old year 7 daughter is the same. She shows lots of ADD/ASD traits but when I took her to be assessed last week I was told she was too sociable, could recite numbers backwards and could concentrate on the man in the appointment so I was talking rubbish.

I hope you can get your ds some help. Pastoral care at school have been really supportive so if you haven't spoken to school then I recommend you try the pastoral lead for support