The old private v state - we have to choose!!

[Miladymilord]

If your dd (year 8) was at a good local comprehensive school but had been offered a scholarship and bursary to a good local independent school, what would you do?

She's extremely sporty (hence scholarship and bursary).

But she's lovely!! She's so calm and kind and tolerant of all kinds of people. She has loads of friends. She's on the school council and she's bright and confident. She likes the boys and they like her. She finishes early (3). Teachers really seem to like her. She's making good academic progress. I don't want her to change!

Indie is single sex, competitive and results are far better as much as you can compare. Sport is very good. It's mainly boarding but they have a few day who integrate well (a day girl is currently deputy head). It's pretty posh. Huge amounts of extra curricular. Staff seem very happy and smiley. Girls too, although I know there's a few wild ones, loads of smoking by year 11 (I have a friend with a dd there).

I don't know what to do!!

Dd wants to go but has reservations, probably because I am in two minds. Dh is in doubt private school but is a bit worried about the (tiny!) cost.

Help!

I imagine the "huge difference" academically is because the private school is selective and only takes the top 10% or so of the population, whereas the comprehensive take a full ability range.

I agree you can't compare the two, but you can compare how these results compare based on the intake. (e.g for the comp, you can drill down into results by high/medium/low achievers on the education.gov site). For the private school, how does it compare with other schools with similar intake? What happens if your child is not a stellar performer?

Interesting that your DD originally mentioned being overlooked at the comp but she's now found her niche. Will she still have the opportunity to be on the student council at the private school? Will her teachers notice her, or will she just "be much of a muchness" with the others? Or will she just be pigeonholded as "the sporty one"? I'd want to consider these things very carefully.

I would keep her where she is going on what you have said. She seems to be happy in all areas which is so important. There is an argument that children who are able academically will do well where ever they are as long as the teaching is to a good standard and they are happy in their environment. Personally speaking from experience I am not convinced by single sex schools. I work in child protection and believe the balance with both sex schools is healthier and more reflective of the mix of society in general. Some girls have some great friends who are boys too. I am not saying this is the case everywhere but some girls schools I have visited have had problems with self harming and girls with an over fascination with boys especially as some girls do not always have the opportunity to mix with boys their own age on a regular basis in a single sex school. Obviously your dd's wishes are important too. Best luck with whatever decision you make.

Just to reassure you - if you think she'll no longer be 'lovely' and tolerant if she goes to a private school. My dd goes to a selective girls private school on a bursary, but she's kept in close contact with her old primary best friend and other friends from church and youth group who go to ordinary comprehensives and she meets up with them regularly. She's very accepting of all types of people.

Also, the girls school doesn't sound as selective as my daughter's - GCSE results were around 80% 8/9/A* there. I say that because one of the struggles at a selective school is feeling inadequate and my daughter does sometimes feel that a bit, but we're trying to encourage her not to compare. I'm thinking it might not be such an issue at the school you're considering though.

One benefit of this sort of school is the high expectations - I think they're generally pushed up by the peer group. I don't think it matters that much at GCSE, but I do think they're more likely to push themselves towards an 8 or 9 if they think that's normal and achievable. My dd did comment that her old best friend, who is very bright, has already assumed she's not capable of more than a 7. She definitely has lower expectations because only a handful in her year will get 8s and 9s. Having said that, I'm sure her school will push her to achieve her best.

The independent school certainly isn’t particularly selective with those results. The comprehensive sounds ok but no better than that.

I think you have to look at far more than academics though. Independent schools should offer all sorts of extra activities and opportunities. Often sports scholars get kit bought for them. It is the norm for independent schools to like sporty children. So she will find other girls like her and the teams may well be stronger as a result of that policy. Independent schools often have specialist teachers for sports so that can be a bonus too.

Other posters are overlooking that independent boarding schools usually have new girls in Y9. Often day girls have very long days though.

If you started on this route, and your DD wants to go, you owe it to her to try it. It’s a bit flaky to back out now and suggest it’s because the other pupils might change your DD. They won’t. If you saw the Redcar programme on the BBC recently, look at the upset caused by the girl who got to the private school with a 90% bursary but still couldn’t go. There were many reasons why that process should never have been started, not least the total absence of funds for the 10% of fees and transport costs, but if you have done your sums, then go for it. It will make her feel successful, confident and happy. She deserves this.

Over 25% of exams awarded 7 or above - comp

44% 8, 9 or A* at the private school

Er, that's a huge difference. Not as gigantic as it would be at the most selective independents, but still very significant indeed. Seize the opportunity with both hands!

It isn't selective. They have six sets in maths and English not sure about the others. The art looks absolutely fantastic but sadly dd is not at all arty! At the moment she likes languages, history and geography, all seem very well taught.

Having said it isn't selective, the bursar did say they are absolutely full so about to bring in more selective entrance exams.

If it isn't selective and there's still that much of a difference between it and the comp, I'd be biting their hands off!
They clearly want your daughter, given that she's been offered a scholarship, and while I agree that she may not always choose to be as sporty, a sports scholarship can be a means to an end - it gives your daughter opportunities she wouldn't otherwise have, and opens doors (such as allowing her into a much better school in the first place).

It isn't selective .. except by ability to pay (which excludes a huge proportion of the student population, including many of those DC that are statistically likely to be less academically able).

I'd also be interested to know if "not selective" means "we're not selective but if you don't keep up we will suggest another school might be more appropriate for you".

Yes of course its socially selective because of the fees. I don't think they kick anyone out before gcses AFAIK

How are you getting on? Have you decided?

It sounds like it may be somewhere like Millfield where the children are not particularly academic. I would choose this new school if I were you although I am not a fan of boarding schools (although I know she would not be boarding) as the enivronment is different from the day academic private schools we chose. We are certainly happy to have paid school fees.

I was wondering about Millfield too.

I say go for it. If she is unhappy once she gets there, presumably she can always go back to her current school.

It would be the independent for me. My DS is super sporty but had limited sport at his primary and the local state do have sport but it’s not viewed as important. Academically his current. School is better too with 73% achieving (7,8,9) and 22% 9s The school my son attends has had boys playing for professionals rugby clubs, football, cricket, athletics . 4 of his friends were in the U21 england rugby team . The difference with state and some private schools (not all) is if your DC is good at sport they will ensure they get the best training and opportunities. My DS went to his school knowing no one else. Took a few weeks to settle in and is now really happy, he has taken up golf which I am a little surprised about, plays football and rugby three times a week. He is thriving. Your DD sounds bright and if she has been offered and opportunity and she wants to move then let her ..

Just to say that you can’t compare overall results of a comprehensive school and any school which is selective, whatever the selection criteria are- you have to compare by cohort. So, how do the comprehensive’s high attainers do compared to the selective school? The comprehensive will have kids from the whole bell curve- the selective will only have middle to right.

My daughter is year 8 and at private school having been state educated at primary. Just be aware that if she goes private she may be mixing with a very different group of friends. The kids at my daughter’s school are all very monied and it is hard for her to keep up socially because we can’t afford to always change her wardrobe to reflect latest fashions, she doesn’t have a huge allowance, we can’t pay for taxis if she stays out after dark so she has to come home earlier etc. Even the fact that the socialise in cafes after school each day is costing too much. Plus her friends are very out of touch and have no understanding of their privilege.

Having said that she loves her school and is being stretched academically.

I think anyone applying to independent would be foolish not to compare results from the local state. If your paying a lot of money then you will look at the local state and see the difference against the independent. I would be expecting the independent to do far better due to there selection process and if they didn’t I wouldn’t waste my money. I have looked at every years results as part of my research and looked at university destinations. It’s about doing your homework.... my point here on this thread is if OP DD loves sport and wants to move to the independent school because of that it is of course no surprise that the OP would also look at the results.

If she wants to go, I would absolutely allow her to do so.

By this age, she will still keep in touch with her current friends who are presumably very local. It's not like it was when we were at school - they all have phones and social media and keep in touch constantly.

It sounds like an amazing opportunity. My DD also has a massive bursary/scholarship and it's been amazing for her.

Tough decision. I do sympathise. On balance though, I think if you’ve gone to all the trouble of getting her the bursary etc it’d be worth her giving it a go and finding out what the new school has to offer her. Worst case she can do as others have suggested and reapply to current school later. Lots of real advantages to single sex (as well as the disadvantages others have pointed out). Good luck and let us know what you decide.

I knew several children who got sports scholarships. This actually restricted their choice of sports, as they were expected to prioritise the school teams over other activities (although county level and above they did instead of school stuff). I'd definitely find out what expectations would be attached to the bursary.

I think it would be wrong for DD to get to the point of a bursary and for you to then say no.
It isnt a one way street at year 8. If it isnt for her she could swap back.
It sounds a bit like you are "better the devil you know" about it. Dd sounds great. No school chucks bursaries around without real talent being identified.

So you have to opportunity to give her a massive advantage in life but you are dithering? There is a reason why private school graduates are over represented in the upper echelons of our society. They are better educated. This school will offer her better grades, presumably a better education to go with the grades, an opportunity to learn a new set of social skills, more support with extra curricular etc. What exactly do you think she has to gain by keeping her where she already is?

And I believe privately educated pupils are also over-represented amongst Olympic athletes too.

To the poster who warned about not being able to keep up with more wealthy parents, I can only say that this was not an issue for us, though I can imagine it can be in some cases.

My daughters' state primary friends were much more obsessed with labels and their appearance than their independent secondary school friends were. (I was amazed that some started having heir legs waxed and their hair highlighted when still at primary school).

And I would say that many of their primary school parents had as much disposable income as the independent parents did (once they had paid school fees). Obviously there were some very wealthy parents at the independent, and some very disadvantaged at the state school, but there was a considerable overlap in the middle.

while I agree that she may not always choose to be as sporty, a sports scholarship can be a means to an end

What happens to the sports scholarship, if she does decide at some point that she no longer wants to be sporty, is fed up with playing for the school in every match etc? Is there a 'continued performance' clause?

My DD got a music award and at year 10 she dropped the instrument. She played cello at school but her main instruments were piano an harpsichord. However you don’t get awards for those instruments. She can’t stand the cello now and dropped it this year. They have kept the award as she is doing GCSE in music and top of her class does a lot of composing and now plays piano at shows instead of cello. Scholarships are usually reviewed every year.