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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Duke of Edinburgh award - bronze

146 replies

Linneasweet · 24/09/2018 21:23

DD want to do this, I been on the info meeting in school but think DD wants to do it for the wrong reasons, she says it will help with uni applications while I like the fact she would do it for the community side and be more responsible. Can someone please explain it for me? Does it help with uni applications?

OP posts:
BackInTime · 26/09/2018 16:23

DD plays for two different school sports teams and trains 4 times a week after school. She also does another activity twice a week that takes up Saturday and often Sunday. We have one free afternoon a week which is taken up with homework catchup and revision.

I get that some kids need the motivation and opportunities that the DofE provides to get out there and do stuff but if someone is already quite involved and can demonstrate the same capabilities as someone with a DofE I am unsure what is to be gained other than keeping up with the Jones and a box ticking exercise.

QuantumGroan · 26/09/2018 16:35

Progression vague - I suppose if you turn up every week you’d improve anyway. Both my kids just got the normal activities signed off.

ErrolTheDragon · 26/09/2018 20:16

Sounds as though your DD is doing plenty, backintime - there is no DofE 'box' to be ticked.

BackforGood · 26/09/2018 22:38

It seems almost expected at her school,
and
My MC children did it because the school arranged it and nearly everyone had a go

I have to say, this annoys me.

To my mind, the DofE, is / should be a recognition of those dc who 'go the extra mile' or take on something outside their comfort zone. Schools that "factory farm" the whole year group through DofE awards, for me totally miss the point of the whole award scheme. It is like the "compulsory volunteering" that some 6th forms make their pupils do "for their CV" or "for their personal statement" .

ErrolTheDragon · 26/09/2018 22:44

I'm not sure many schools put the whole year through it - actually logistically impossible for most - and even if they get a high take up for bronze, there will be significant attrition in numbers doing each of the other levels.

Rainbowcolours1 · 26/09/2018 22:47

It isn't about getting something to put on a form. It's about developing as a young person and sticking with something and seeing it through. I did my gold over thirty years ago. Some of it was tough, some ineteresting and some really great but it was the commitment to compete it that was important.

notacooldad · 26/09/2018 22:53

I 100% agree with you Backforgood
This is part of the reason why I get annoyed about people thinking the Bronze including the exped is a doddle. Some schools 'hot house' the kids for the D of E and just churn them through it. For many schools it looks good for Ofsted.

I have had resistance from staff who think the DofE is a waste of time. The kids that I have got through the Bronze and Silver have put their heart and soul into it and overcome obstacles so the Award actually means something. They have gone out of their comfort zones, they have come close to quitting because it is too challenging and when they do finally pass it means something and It

proves that they can do something if they put their mind to it and people are proud for them. They are proud of themselves

This is why I hate schools just having it as a tick box exercise and kids being allowed to pick something that they are already doing and competent at. Those schools devalue the spirit of the DofE and those kids may have not bothered.

BackforGood · 26/09/2018 23:46

Exactly notacooldad

Might not be many Errol, but they do exist. I know of 2, around here. I mean, I don't know 100% if they put all dc through, but I do know they do hand it to the dc on a plate, which is what totally negates the point of them doing it, IMVHO.

Miladymilord · 27/09/2018 08:59

Dds indie school hands bronze to them - all done in school in lesson time. Obviously they still have to do everything, but as volunteering, sport and lots of extra curric is included in the school day it's easier. Silver and gold are harder.

Dd1 worked her socks off for maths gcse, really struggled and got a C. Her friend did bugger all work, didn't revise and still got a C. Dds C is not worth more than the friends C!

BackInTime · 27/09/2018 09:07

I agree about many schools doing it as looks good and because it’s expected by parents. It just seems to defeat the purpose if many kids are encouraged by schools to choose something they are already competent at and would be doing anyhow regardless of DofE.

BackInTime · 27/09/2018 09:13

Also if so many kids have a DofE these days does this diminish its value somewhat? It also difficult to distinguish between those who really has to work hard and went outside their comfort zone and those kids that were already ticking most of the boxes and were churned through by their school.

QuantumGroan · 27/09/2018 09:13

I agree notacooldad Bronze was no challenge for my kids, I think they gained very little from it...and that has lead me to feel it was mostly pointless.

BackInTime · 27/09/2018 09:14

*had

notacooldad · 27/09/2018 12:50

All I can say is that I'm glad I'm not associated with a school.
I normally have an informal chat with the young person and help plan out their course. I discourage them at doing all 3 sections at the same time ( physical, volunteering and skill) as u don't want them to overload themselves. I can help them to get the ball rolling and I will generally let them start doing the D of E for a few weeks before I enrol them to see if they are going to commit to it. I have lost quite a few kids at the first hurdle so there is no point in paying for their membership if they are not going to commit.
The whole ethos o the D of E is to challenge people and get them out of their comfort zone and to take pride in what they do. My groups have been creative over the years. My favourite was where a group of 5 of them wrote a song, came up with tune to go with it and made a CD of it!

I think I would be pretty pissed off if I was a parent paying £150+ for this activity and getting little in return.
Someone compared getting the award as the same as someone who worked hard and getting the same GCSE result as someine whi didnt. Maybe so but that misses the point. The point if the award is for personal growth and to help find where personal strengths and weakness are and to give something towards your community. A bronze and silver are not about getting into university and are extemly unlikely to. It never occurred to me that people may sign up for that reason alone in which case they are doing it for the wrong reasons and wasting everyone's time and money.
Those kids that have got nothing from the award have been let down by their leaders and co ordinators.
They have wasted their time and your money.

LimitIsUp · 27/09/2018 13:32

Even if kids sign up for the 'wrong' reasons in your opinion notacooldad, if they complete the bronze I would wager they have got something out of it.

Okay my ds may have cynically signed up for the bronze for his 'cv' and personal statement. He may also be taking a bit of a tick box approach to aspects of it to minimise the work, like counting his existing football commitments in the sport component (so you would probably abhor that he is doing bronze award and think he is wasting his time), but what I take from it is that he is volunteering at a local charity shop (which believe me he would not have otherwise done) and is learning something valuable about the need to be dependable and reliable and also about the world of work (there are salaried employees where he volunteers, and it is a 'job')

The expedition whilst short, is outside his comfort zone because whilst he likes his sport he is not an outdoor enthusiast and has never been involved in scouting. Reading a map, using a compass etc and camping are new skills for him.

At the moment he hasn't decided on his skill but there is a debating society at school which I will encourage him to try since it will develop his self confidence (which could do with a boost)

I think you are being too purist in your expectations

QuantumGroan · 27/09/2018 14:00

My dcs were scouts and we have done several long walks in the Lakes with them, so the expedition was something they had kind of done before - they aren't sporty and fit - pretty slight actually but they knew what they were facing and so didn't find it very hard. They were encouraged to use the activities they were already doing to finish up on time. Ds volunteered at the library - he'd done the same thing the previous summer without DofE. Why hadn't he done something more challenging? - there are about 300 kids who do DofE in our small town, volunteer opportunities are swallowed up very quickly and due to time constraints, they can't wait and do the thing they want to do when a place becomes available - so I guess you could say they enjoyed the bants but there was very little personal growth....which was what I had hoped for.

notacooldad · 27/09/2018 14:03

Even if kids sign up for the 'wrong' reasons in your opinion notacooldad, if they complete the bronze I would wager they have got something out of it.
I hope so, I was really responding to those that are saying the schools are putting kids through the D of E as a matter of course, some parents paying a lot if money for it and all they are saying the kids got nothing out if it, From my point of view that's not fair on the child or the parent.
I don't abhor the idea a of your son playing football as such and from what you say , he is getting something out of it.

I can honestly say I feel my Ds didn't get good value from his D of E when he did his with his school and I paid £65 for it that and not £150 like sime parents.i feel like I got off lightly!

Miladymilord · 27/09/2018 19:35

all they are saying the kids got nothing out if it

I didnt say my kids got nothing out of it. One of my dds discovered that she loved working with children through the volunteering. They both discovered that they hated hiking with a backpack Grin

I do think you are being a bit much about expecting it to be a life changing experience for everyone.

notacooldad · 27/09/2018 21:04

I didnt say my kids got nothing out of it. One of my dds discovered that she loved working with children through the volunteering. They both discovered that they hated hiking with a backpack grin

I didn't say you did! Many kids feel the same about the hiking!!! They tell me often enough! To be fair, I would have hated it as well when I was 14 and 15!!

I do think you are being a bit much about expecting it to be a life changing experience for everyone

I really don't. It wasn't for my lad. He had not intention of taking it to silver and only did it because it seemed the thing to do at his school and 'all his mates were doing it!' It hasn't made a jot of difference to his life or how his life has turned out. In fact it never got mentioned again once he had completed.

Some of my points have got misinterpreted.
I have never agreed with the statement that it helps get into uni. Certainly not at Bronze and Silver level. You said on an earlier post that if I thought that I was wrong Milord I never thought that ever!

Some else has said that because their son does football I must abhor that. More bullshit. A lot of our kids have opted for football. If they are just doing the same thing week in, week out, and there is no progression it is wasting everyone's time. Because I said something along these lines I am then being accused of being a purist. I am just doing my job as expected of an assessor in this role. I am being paid to make sure that what is being signed off is accurate and in keeping with the D of E. If I was turning a blind eye to things I would expect to be held accountable and my integrity would be questioned.

Some of my other colleagues have refused to sign that section off because there has been no plan in place to show development and there has been no evidence of improvement. There have been plenty of others, in fact the majority of them that have passed the physical section by doing football. So football is not an issue for me, as long as it is planned properly by the young person and the coach.

Progression vague - I suppose if you turn up every week you’d improve anyway. Both my kids just got the normal activities signed off.
Progression shouldn't be vague, that's why your child is given a hand book to record what they have done and what they improved on. It should all be done at the start of the section whether it is the skills or the physical. Turning up every week doesn't indicate progression. If you have paid for your child to do this award and this has happened you have been short changed! The person assessing that activity should be writing a report saying what the starting point was and what the end outcome was and describing how the young person has developed.

The Duke of Edinburgh isn't for everyone. That is why I allow young people to have a few sessions without signing up (I can back date some of their work so if they continue they haven't wasted time) Some realize that it is a commitment and they decide they don't want to do it and that's fine. Some never return to the second or third meeting and I never see again. At least we ( Local Authority) hasn't thrown money away on enrolling them.

One thing that I am unhappy about is how expensive it is for some people. I am staggered when I hear how much some of my friends have paid for their kids to do it, especially those in private schools. I think it has given the impression that the DofE is quite elitist in some areas. I am in a fortunate position of having some funding ( all though it gets cut every year, like everyone else's budget) so those children who would never be able to afford to anything like this get the opportunity to.
Also talking about money, like I said some of you have paid a fair whack for your kids to do this. After reading your comments I am quite disapointed in the service you have received, especially those kids that just turn up every week and get a tick for it.
When we run our courses we want it to challenging, make the kids strive a little harder - some of our kids have never done an extra curricular activity, hell some have never managed a full week in school and have attendance records of around 36% but most of all I want them to look back and think that they have enjoyed it and discovered something about themselves ( even if it is only they hate camping!)

*I agree notacooldad Bronze was no challenge for my kids, I think they gained very little from it...and that has lead me to feel it was mostly pointless. I just find that a little sad

I am passionate about the award, not only because it is part of my job and I get paid for it but because for some kids it does make a difference, not all of them of course ( but to be fair, I never said it did)

My advice to parents whose kids are being encouraged to do the award by the school is to find out how much it costs and what exactly are you getting for your money. Don't rush out and buy loads of new gear. Don''t let your child do it if they are not enthusiastic and only doing it because 'they have to' or 'everyone else is'. (That was my mistake with my lad!!}

Bloody hell! I have wrote an essay! I was just musing on some points and talking about this thread in the office today that has led me to bring some points up.

Miladymilord · 27/09/2018 21:28

I do admire your passion for it. You sound like a very good leader Smile

notacooldad · 27/09/2018 21:39

Thank you milady
I just want the best outcome for 'my' kids.
You have worked out that they come from disadvantaged back grounds where often no one gives a shit ( I work with their parents as well) Some of the kids are amazing and make us proud.

Miladymilord · 27/09/2018 21:56

That's lovely Smile

QuantumGroan · 27/09/2018 22:17

I think you sound brilliant too notacooldad It must be very rewarding to see kids battle against it and achieve.

BackInTime · 28/09/2018 15:39

You sound like a great leader notacooldad and how you describe what you want the kids you work with to get from DofE is exactly what I feel it’s all about. Unfortunately, this is being touted in schools as a plus point for university applications and this means that parents are being coerced into signing their kids up because they do not want take this risk of their DC missing out. I think that it is unfair of schools to promote it like this and that they should be more honest about the genuine benefits and not sell it as a bonus point uni applications.

BubblesBuddy · 28/09/2018 17:38

My DDs went to a small school and the vast majority did Bronze DofE. The point for them was that they gave back to the younger school community and in younger DD's case, to her dancing school and the younger children's classes. It was not just a case of saying they did X sport or activity and using that. They committed to the sessions over many weeks to volunteer properly. I rather resent that just because they did it via school, and most children wanted to sign up, that it was in some way, an inferior reason.

It makes no difference to university applications but posters seem to be saying that MC children should not do it, only the deserving poor or some unidentified underclass.

I fundamentally believe that everyone can volunteer. Playing sport is not really volunteering. Often the main beneficiary is you or success for your team. Sporting success is often rewarded with medals, colours and other accolades. It is not really giving to others. Taking training sessions, helping with a junior team etc is volunteering. Just playing and training is not. DDs' school was keen on the volunterring aspect of DofE and even the busiest of girls (sports teams, music commitments galore etc) did DofE. It was considered to be a good thing, collaborative, and a time to give to others. Not just doing things for yourself.