School in Middlesbrough excludes 41% of pupils

[CruCru]

I’ve just read this thing in the Guardian about a school that has the highest number of exclusions in the UK. Have you seen

Just because this school is taking a different approach, pointy regarding uniform, it doesn’t mean it’s wrong.

If it were making a huge fuss about uniform and still languishing in special measures, then that might be the point to query whether attention would be better spent elsewhere.

yes I still have school pics of my mum with her various classes from back in the 70s, and every single child is wearing a vague approximation of the uniform, like we all did back then, including in my rather fancy London girls' school...
I really don't think uniform improves attainment, any more than wearing a suit might make you a better teacher...

Oh, what do I know, my mum was never a teacher.

No, of course it doesn't mean it's wrong! It also doesn't mean it's right though. Ultimately if it's possible to take a big picture approach, turn a school around and have a school where parents and pupils are happy, with low levels of exclusion, isn't that preferable to a school that takes a micromanaging approach, has high levels of exclusion and where parents and pupils are not happy? Especially when there is now pressure on secondary places and many parents may not have an alternative? I don't see why the school doesn't try to achieve both good ratings and high rates of pupil and parent satisfaction when it is clearly possible to do so. It swmacks of laziness to me.

there was no need for that noblegiraffe, I am just saying I am in a position to remember a different time, quite well, because I still have the photos. It wasn't something that they stressed about, attainment was. No need to be spiteful.

And noble I am just trying to illustrate that I'm not just a moaning parent. I know you are a teacher and a maths expert. You do however seem to be wedded to the British belief that uniform is always a good thing. We will simply have to disagree. All I will say is that I have always abided by the rules, because I chose to live here and put my children through the school system here. However, that does not mean I have to like it and I do have the right to express that dislike on forums like this one.

Turning a failing school around is an incredibly hard job. Parents whinging to the press about kids being picked up for incorrect uniform would be better to spend their time supporting the school.

FriedChicken my mum used to teach in jeans and a crazy print top. Got top notch results and never had behaviour issues because she was one tough cookie - but fair. I will never get this obsession with style over substance.

I agree that going to the press achieves nothing and is just as lazy as going the OTT rules route. And I know turning a school around it bloody hard work - I know what it took at ours.

" Parents whinging to the press about kids being picked up for incorrect uniform would be better to spend their time supporting the school."

and maybe teachers would be better to spend their time , you know... teaching..? instead of whining about the wrong colour socks or whatever it is that they do. I do realise that they are not decision makers and just have to do as they are told but...

uniform is always a good thing.

I’m saying that uniform is not a bad thing. The school I work in has a strict uniform for KS3/4 and a free-for-all in sixth form. Both are fine.

If a school has a uniform then that’s totally reasonable. If it has a uniform then it is totally reasonable to enforce that uniform.

It’s when you get these bloody stories in the press where parents cry when the school they send their kids to enforce the rules you get people going ‘oh they shouldn’t have a uniform, then there wouldn’t be a problem,’. No, the kids should follow the sodding rules then there wouldn’t be a problem. The existence of a uniform is not the issue here.

The existence of a uniform is not the issue here.

Agreed - the choice to sweat the small stuff is the issue here. I would not want to send my child to a school with such high exclusion rates.

" The existence of a uniform is not the issue here."
well obviously it is.
Honestly the teachers whining about this kind of thing when they could just be doing the jobs they trained for , just sound so anal.
is there a module at TT college on sock or trouser inspection?

I wonder how the remaining 60 odd percent of pupils feel about the exclusion rate?

Pointy so you’d prefer that the defiant (as admitted by her parents) pupil was allowed to stay in the classroom being defiant and refusing to follow reasonable instructions?

How much more teaching do you think went on in the school when it was in special measures and the teachers weren’t enforcing the uniform rules?

I imagine there was a bit more to it than uniform infringements tbh.

Certainly school pupils have to do as they are told or there is disaster.

Having worked in schools similar circumstances to that school, the picture is rarely as simple as 'child had coat on so got excluded'.

noble not at all - that's a behaviour issue and I'm all in favour of schools being tough on bad behaviour. I would just like to know why this school has such a very high exclusion rate compared to other schools, and why the same applies to this particular academy chain - because they are clearly doing something wrong if they need to exclude that frequently.

Outwood have a reputation about being excessive about uniforms (I'm in the region that they operate in). Considering they take over schools that are in deprived areas and then change the uniform it's hardly surprising that some parents can't (for a variety of reasons) get their kids to school dressed 'appropriately'. Maybe I'm cynical but I'm sure excluding children who can't meet the uniform requirements is an excellent way to exclude 'badly behaved' children and therefore 'improve' behaviour in achool but they are missing the point of public education whose aim is to provide an education for all children. 41% of pupils aren't getting properly educated and that is a failure to me whatever Ofsted say.

CountFosco and that is my big problem - schools using uniform to manipulate their intake, selection by wealth. Which is why I would like to know the breakdown of the reasons behind this school and this chain's very high exclusion levels.

The fact that you follow the rules even though you don’t agree with them puts you in a completely different head space to the parents complaining about uniform, pointy.

In most schools with a strict uniform policy it won’t be an issue for the majority of pupils and they’ll be perfectly happy. There are a group of parents who don’t seem to think the rules should apply to their children. It wasn’t uniform, it would be something else. Anything else. They’d be the ones complaining about their kids being sent home for dress code violations in schools with no uniforms.

41% of pupils aren't getting properly educated

And if they’re in the classroom, are the other 59%?

An exclusion is usually a day or so.

i dunno i understand we need rules amd kids should follow then but teachers could be a hell of a lot smarter in how they deal with the kids tbh these are teens with so many hormones to deal with anyway. i.e a child refusing to take off a coat, could be defiance could something else a long coat if a girls has 'leaked' etc i would ask nicely and if there was an issue, if i got a petulant and arsy response i would simply continue the lesson, the defiant 1 hr coat wearing protester will feel like a div soon enough

Rafa agreed, which is why I feel that parents who go to the papers have pretty much lost the argument already. However, I am suspicious of Academy chains with strict (and expensive) uniform requirements and very high exclusion rates. Everyone has a right to an education and there are schools which are gaming the system.