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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

As the Tiffin deadline looms, is there a girls SW London grammars / indies thread yet?

969 replies

FlumePlume · 26/08/2018 18:15

I just realised that I need to get the Tiffin Girls form in ASAP, and wondered if anyone else is in the same position? I could do with company in this process!

We’re not yet decided but probably applying to Tiffin, WHS, SPGS, Sutton High and maybe one of PHS / Emanuel / KGS.

OP posts:
littlemisslucky2 · 02/02/2019 16:47

Well done on PHS*1ndig0! It’s a great school.

Sweetnhappy - is it your first choice? Might be worth ringing to see where you are on waiting list and telling them you are definitely interested in a place if offered. So many go for multiple schools it must be hard for the schools to assess who would actually take up a place if offered. Hopefully the waiting list will move.
Flumeplume - my dd is also coming from state and this thread has been so useful as there is no advice from a state school when applying to private or grammar. There are also very few other children doing 11+ from my daughter’s school so I haven’t really had anyone to discuss it with. This thread has kept me sane to know we’re not alone!

Sweetnhappy1 · 02/02/2019 17:45

Thank you 1ndigo and littlemisslucky2. The letter specifies that people shouldn't call for waiting list position I don't think they will give any information. It's not the favourite but the first reply. My DD wasn't bothered by the letter today but will be disappointed if WHS is the same, that was her favourite.

FlumePlume · 02/02/2019 17:56

Sweet Best of luck for WHS on Thursday, then. Just from this thread, we know how many children are going for multiple schools, so the waiting lists must move quite a lot. And people have also said that WHS and PHS look for quite different things, so hopefully that will work in your favour.

littlemiss Only one other girl at dd’s school did the indie exams (as far as I know) and I rarely see her mum, so I’ve found it fantastic to have virtual company, too.

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1ndig0 · 02/02/2019 18:14

On the other hand, I feel like I can’t get away from 11 plus as the whole year are doing at least 5 schools each!

It’s still feels like a parallel universe to me though, even though our DC have been in the independent system since reception, as I’m not British and grew up in very different circumstances and DH’s family were refugees, so no personal experience whatsoever of the independent school system or how to access “top” schools and / or unis.

I think anyone reading this thread outside London is probably Confused.

Sweetnhappy1 · 02/02/2019 18:17

Thanks #FlumePlume, and best of luck to your DD too. We felt the same as you about the feel of WHS. I strongly suspect that will be waiting list, Tiffin will be waiting list and we won't know where we are going for a few months. I'm sure it'll all come out in the wash, the most important thing for me is DD hadn't found this process stressful. I on the other hand am quietly going grey 😂Flowers We are also from a state primary and don't know anyone who did the same schools so this thread has been fantastic for us.

Bool · 03/02/2019 11:31

DDs PHS letter didn’t arrive yesterday. Anyone else? Bad sign?

SW153kids · 03/02/2019 11:45

Bad post, I imagine Bool......
Fingers crossed for tomorrow for you.

Jimjam68 · 03/02/2019 11:50

Ours didn’t arrive either.

FlumePlume · 03/02/2019 11:53

Bool and Jimjam, that’s so frustrating, fingers crossed for the post tomorrow. If it doesn’t come then, I’d be very tempted to ring the school. Is PHS your top choice?

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Bool · 03/02/2019 12:06

Just makes the whole thing more stressful for poor DD sitting waiting for the post that doesn’t come. Will no doubt plop through the letterbox tomorrow. We don’t know what our first choice is yet. KGS (she had a general interview), SHS (positive), WHS, PHS and Ibstock. We were going to wait to see where she got into and then see.

Bool · 03/02/2019 12:06

Why can’t they email and follow up with the post!

HeadSpinning2019 · 03/02/2019 13:00

So wish they would send by email.

Better for the environment and for fees.
One of older DC didn't hear when others did for one school.
She till got it and the letter finally arrived 2(!) days later.
So sit tight everyone who didn't hear.

FlumePlume · 03/02/2019 16:03

Bool Our approach is similar - we genuinely have two ‘first choices’ and would be delighted with either, so waiting to see what offers appear (or don’t). I hope you get the PHS letter tomorrow and that it’s good news!

I was thinking (too much!) about what 1ndig0 said about CAT scores, does anyone know the range for any / some of the schools we’re talking about here? Dd hasn’t done any CAT tests, but I was thinking that knowing the ranges would make it easier to ‘rank’ the schools and identify a stretch and a should get into (partly for the people going through this next year, and partly for my own curiosity!).

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Bool · 03/02/2019 16:57

@FlumePlume genuinely don’t know how we would choose between PHS and KGS so quite hoping for them to make the choice for us! Sometimes too much choice is a bad thing! And then add WHS into the mix and the confusion really starts given that is only a walk away. My DS is at KGS and absolutely loves it - as do we. So genuinely would be flummoxed if too much choice. So whilst of course it is nice to be offered a place in a few places it would also be confusing. Then add a fave waitlist to that and things really get messy Confused

Bool · 03/02/2019 17:11

I find this ranking thing super tough. Having gone through this once already I know plenty of boys who got into KCS but not KGS and vice versus. Boys who got into KGS but not Ibstock and vice versa. Am not so up on the girls WHS vs PHS vs SHS etc. But this ranking thing is not easy now.

Bool · 03/02/2019 17:19

I genuinely think each school looks for a ‘type’ of kid which then makes me sceptical about choosing a school which DD is on a waitlist for. Would she then really fit in if she was waitlisted and not an automatic yes...Also makes it much easier to explain to the kids - that school is simply not suited to you. After all they are all bright able kids.

KaliforniaDreamz · 03/02/2019 19:00

In 2 years' time when i may (or may not) do this with DS i expect they will have to jump through hoops of fire and and land neatly on a tigers' back whilst reciting Paradies Lost.

Can't. wait.

winterishereithink · 03/02/2019 19:04

I really wouldn't worry about accepting a waitlist place if it's offered. I know quite a few children who got in via waitlists at a lot of the schools mentioned and they've all been absolutely fine both academically and in terms of the school being the 'right fit'. Hang in there everyone!

TheQuickBrownFox66 · 03/02/2019 19:15

Gosh no, if you get a wait list place, just go for it. There will be little difference between those that get offered and those on wait lists. You wouldn't be on the wait list if they weren't happy to have you! And yes, it seems to get harder and harder these days. So much competition.

Jimjam68 · 03/02/2019 19:38

I’m not so sure many of them do have a type. I think they may just strictly rank by test scores, but adjust for anyone showing exceptional potential at interview/assessment day. Selection is a dark art anyway that’s for sure!

littlemisslucky2 · 03/02/2019 20:09

I’d have no problem accepting a waitlist place. Remember they are judging the child on one exam (or interview) and once st the school everyone is in an equal footing. Some may have done amazingly well in the admissions process (maybe due to tutor/parental preparation/prep school practice or simply luck). At the school they are all starting new subjects and syllabuses and some of the ones at the top of their list might well be overtaken by ones lower down their list or from the WL. Who knows?
Kalaforniadreamz - you make me laugh! we also have a younger Ds and dreading going through this again!! Was looking at him earlier and wondering if it’s too late to start coaching him for a music or sports scholarship to save us some fees!

Jimjam68 · 03/02/2019 20:11

Kalifornia 😂

1ndig0 · 03/02/2019 20:24

I know DC who got into one of the schools on here on the wl and ended up as head girl. Don’t let it deter you one bit!

Flume - on the subject of the stats, I can relate to you exactly what I was shown by the head at our prep. I was actually quite surprised that they use numbers to guide senior school entry, but they most certainly do! The head showed me a chart ranking the schools on this basis.

CAT scores are not quite like IQ scores because the top score is 141 (IQ scores can go higher). The CAT tests assess potential ability, rather than actual academic performance at that point in time. So the CATs assess different areas in maths - spacial as well as numerical ability. Then thete is something that approximates to VR and NVR but it’s nothing like the papers in the Bond books etc. CAT tests are done on a computer and can’t really be “taught”. The school do other tests to assess your reading age, comprehension skills etc but these are different tests as I understand it (on paper). The pupils do these tests twice a year and no big deal is made of it. Parents barely know they are doing the tests at all or what their DC’s scores are. It’s only at 11 plus they get mentioned.

The “average” score nationally would be in the 90-100 range. I think this covers about 60% of the population. However, in certain areas and certain schools (state or non-selective primaries) this “average” is skewed by the demographic. So in this school, the average is 115. I suspect that a state primary in affluent parts of Putney, Chelsea, Fulham, Wimbledon, Barnes and so on, would be very similar. There will be many areas like this where the average is skewed. Obviously this has ramifications for secondary school selections in that area.

The head showed me a chart. Schools such as Westminster, St Paul’s Boys and Girls and (I think) KCS require CAT scores averaging 135. LU requires 130. G&L 128. Wimbledon and Putney High used to be about 120-125, but now it’s more like 125. The head was showing me this to explain why it probably wasn’t wise to use PHS as a “easier” option. Things have changed a lot in recent years and WHS and PHS are becoming more competitive. The same can be said for KGS. Even Ibstock, which used to be more of a failsafe option for some, now gets the same results as KGS. All schools are becoming more and more selective as the years go by, simply because they can be.

The head said some schools are more predictable in terms of entry than others. For instance, LU is quite unpredictable because they interview about 450 for 120 places but then tend to take the more articulate, outgoing characters, often turning the more academic, quieter ones away. Some schools put more emphasis on interview than others. Hampton is more predictable and has certain feeder schools (ie. prep heads can have more sway in influencing offers there). The Consortium schools are all a bit of an unknown this year as the exam has changed.

At this prep they are streamed into 3 sets for maths and English. The head will not write you a reference for a school that is deemed out of reach for any particular pupil. Their relationship with the senior schools rests on “sending” them viable candidates. As you can imagine, this does not go down well with many parents! So for KCS, Westminster or SPGS, it’s a couple to a handful at most from the top sets for English and Maths - it varies year to year. LU tends to be pupils at the upper end of the top Maths and English sets, but it does happen that one or two get in who were in the middle set for one ir the other. Same with LEH and G&L. PHS and WHS are the “stretch” options for those in the middle sets, as is KGS.

This is just about the admissions though. In recent years, PHS and WHS (though supposedly “easier” to get into) are achieving over 90% A-A at GCSE - very similar results to LU or LEH. The heads have changed at both which may have had something to do with it. Also, G&L, although supposedly easier to get into than say LU, SPGS or KCS, achieved over 98% A-A last year. It’s only a fraction lower than SPGS now in terms of GCSE stats. KGS is now getting 85% A-A* as the norm, as is Ibstock which used to be regarded as a less pressured environment. Schools change, but it is a SW London “bubble” and actually, a bright child will do just as well in any of them and the academic differences in standard are wafer-thin when you consider things at a national level.

So those are the stats as they were explained to me - sorry for the essay!

Jimjam68 · 03/02/2019 21:01

That’s really interesting 1indigo, if only we in the state sector could have CAT test results we might select the schools we aim for in a slightly more informed way, than just a “feeling” I suspect a lot of us rely on.

Sweetnhappy1 · 03/02/2019 21:04

1ndig0 so interesting! Thanks! I agree with Jimjam68, I wonder if it's possible to get a CAT test for my younger child so that I am not applying blindly like this time.