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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

As the Tiffin deadline looms, is there a girls SW London grammars / indies thread yet?

969 replies

FlumePlume · 26/08/2018 18:15

I just realised that I need to get the Tiffin Girls form in ASAP, and wondered if anyone else is in the same position? I could do with company in this process!

We’re not yet decided but probably applying to Tiffin, WHS, SPGS, Sutton High and maybe one of PHS / Emanuel / KGS.

OP posts:
Glaciferous · 31/08/2018 12:07

We did around five months of tutoring in total (about twenty sessions or so with breaks for holidays), but not really aimed at subject knowledge as much as getting DD used to working under timed conditions and other exam technique. I wanted her to be comfortable with things like multiple choice questions, what to do if you're running out of time or can't answer a question, working quickly, pacing yourself in an exam etc. Other than that, she did a few papers with the tutor who gave her tips on how to present answers etc.

We did nothing at home. I did not try to teach her anything from above the Y6 syllabus or make her practise anything other than her weekly homework for the tutor (about half an hour's worth). She reads a lot. I got her a subscription to a kids' weekly newspaper leading up to the SPGS interview as I wanted her to have a bit more general knowledge about the world in case it came up. She really liked this and we have continued with it just for enjoyment.

I would say DD was working at a decent end of Y6 level at the start of Y6 in both Maths and English (they did practice SATs at the beginning of the year to give a baseline and she did fine). I do not think she actually learnt much at school over the year as they seemed to mainly be practising SATs papers so although she probably got faster and more comfortable with exams (mainly after she'd taken the school ones) I don't think they really covered any actual new material after about December. DD found the maths paper challenging at Tiffin but nowhere near as much as the SPGS one. I would say one of the challenges was that there were more complex multi-stage questions in both than what she had been used to at her very ordinary primary so she had to be really careful about working out what had actually been asked.

Hope that is a bit helpful!

Growingpeopleme · 31/08/2018 13:33

Really helpful thank you 👍

User19992018 · 31/08/2018 15:40

This reply has been withdrawn

The OP has privacy concerns and so we've agreed to take this down.

Glaciferous · 31/08/2018 16:41

DD started at SPGS on Wednesday and is absolutely loving it. It is quite a journey for us too (about 45 minutes) but her state preferences were Tiffin (45 mins on bus) or Waldegrave (half an hour on bus) so the extra journey time is not really that much. She would have been offered a school in walking distance if she had not been offered Tiffin but she really really did not want to go there, having looked round (I personally thought it seemed OK if not amazing and I would not have been devastated if that's where she ended up).

Post edited by MNHQ

Glaciferous · 31/08/2018 20:56

Sorry, asked MN to edit that as it was a bit identifying. DD went to a state school.

Greenleave · 02/09/2018 21:18

Thanks for sharing Glaciferous, your daughter is surely a very very bright girl. Mine has been going to a group tutor longer (break in the summer holiday) and the tutor homework definitely takes her longer than 30 mins a week(I really have never seen it as she always manages all her homework since ever), I still dont know if she is ok, her NVR is the weakest.
Can I please ask why you chose SPGS over Tiffin, not mentioning the hefty fee.

Glaciferous · 02/09/2018 22:51

Well DD is a clever girl but I would not say that she is a massive outlier intellectually. She did work hard doing the tutor homework every week and she did try her very best for the exams, which is all you can really ask of a person, that they do their very best!

I and she chose SPGS together as a consequence mainly of the soul-destroying SATs year which both DD and I found very uncomfortable on a number of levels. I did not want her to continue to be a number in a table to show progress, regardless of whether her specific intellectual needs had been met (which they often weren't). I didn't want her to be constrained any more by the national curriculum. I absolutely did not want her to be forced to take eBacc subjects later on regardless of whether that suited her or not. I didn't want her to be a cog in a machine. I think state education is becoming all about data, through no fault of the teachers, and I did want her to go to a school that might teach her to value learning purely because it is actually quite enjoyable!

The exam process for Tiffin and SPGS showed me very clearly that SPGS was much more focused on the whole person and on making the experience comfortable for the child whereas DD felt a bit unpersoned by the Tiffin exam process. This is hard to explain! But she came home from the SPGS exams each time telling me about the nice lady she'd met and the interesting puzzles in the exam and the general fun of the experience whereas she came home from the Tiffin exams telling me that she'd sat for 45 minutes in a huge hall in silence before they could start, she didn't feel happy or comfortable, she didn't feel she was treated as a person. Hope this makes some sense. It's difficult to explain. And of course, it's partly being able to fund the process properly that helps SPGS do it in a kind way, which is no reflection on Tiffin really as they are facing the funding constraints that all state schools are now up against.

Also, DD really wants to do, for instance, Ancient Greek. At Tiffin this means giving up free time to do it at a lunchtime club. At SPGS, it's just one of many options she can choose between. Everyone does two languages, maybe more if wanted later on - there are loads more options for this too, not just French, Spanish and Latin. This is something that will really suit her.

I also liked the curriculum higher up the school which is not just focused on exams but also on broad knowledge and includes electives that bear no relation to examined courses. They were at pains to let us know that they really really want girls to take advantage of all the extra-curricular creative and sports stuff and the clubs etc on offer sound genuinely amazing.

Having said all that, I must add as a disclaimer that I went to SPGS so had confidence that it would be a nice place to spend your school years. I should also say that in fact if we could have guaranteed Waldegrave for DD I am not sure we'd have done the exams, though they were her choice so she might have wanted to do them anyway. And in hindsight, I'd have put Waldegrave above Tiffin on the preference form (though she wouldn't have got it in the first round of allocations or possibly even not until after a term or so). I just felt a bit uneasy about Tiffin. I think it might be a bit of an exam factory. And yes, I know people go on about hothousing at SPGS but having experienced it myself when people were saying the same things I believe that isn't true. I haven't got any personal experience of Tiffin to balance the word on the ground against.

In short, DD and I just thought SPGS seemed friendlier and kinder and had a lot more stuff on offer that DD positively wanted to take advantage of!

Wow, v long, sorry!

Greenleave · 02/09/2018 23:13

Much appreciated for your post @Glaciferous!

I havent done much research really rather than going with the distance and league table, we havent visited any school. I was talking to her about travelling to school options today and she said “mom! Lets see if we can get in any of them first” :). We have been watching friends for an hour every evening these days and addicted to it. She was on music both days this weekend whenever we are home, when she starts I nagged alot but these days it has become her routine. We will start with tutoring again in couple of weeks.

Glaciferous · 03/09/2018 06:37

I really would go and see some of them if you can! They all have a really different feel. You might find that somewhere that looks good on paper wouldn't be right for your DD at all.

whenwillsummerend · 03/09/2018 07:53

Greenleave- did I see your DC already has a 10 plus KGS offer? Have you looked round? You really should try and look round all the ones you are vaguely interested in- they cost such a lot and are all so different. It really helps narrow down the choices. DD and I actively disliked a couple of schools and I also looked at a couple without her and then didn't take her to as I didn't like them either. We both liked KGS but some of her friends didn't like it at all for example. Putney High and Ibstock also seem to polarise opinions!

sandybayley · 03/09/2018 08:35

Like @Glaciferous we turned down a place at Tiffin for DD in favour of an independent. It was a mix of reasons and not all entirely rational. I just didn't like the feel of Tiffin and was keen for DD to get a more rounded experience. DD is very musical and sporty and the opportunities she's had have been great. However if you have a child who isn't likely to take advantage of facilities you might make a difference decision.

Our decision was also helped by the fact she got a good scholarship (30%) - I think many girls who pass for Tiffin are in the running for these.

I would definitely view schools. I didn't like KGS and I loved JAGS (too far though). I preferred PHS over WHS. I quite liked Surbiton but we decided it was too big and would have been an 'insurance' option for DD as we thought she'd get offers elsewhere. We didn't view SPGS as DD is somewhat of a perfectionist and I was concerned it would not be the right environment for her (based on discussions with friends and colleagues).

Happy to elaborate if needed!

Greenleave · 03/09/2018 08:45

I was mostly on my own with the girls since January plus keeping up with the crazy hours at work so really havent got time to visit. We plan to visit ones we have passed the entrance requirement(and could afford) only. We like KGS and some of her friends elder siblings go there and love it. In my thinking there are only 3 main things I need to consider if there are choices: the daily journey(we cant move given our circumstances and we love our house), the cost(overall cost including activities, meal, trips etc) and the headteachers.

whenwillsummerend · 03/09/2018 08:59

Totally understand Greenleave- sounds like it's been a tricky time. Great to have KGS anyway- I loved it and everyone I know there does too!

amidreamimg · 03/09/2018 16:28

Yes, to echo everyone, you really need to see. You will know where will suit her, although you may already have a feeling for co ed v single sex at this stage? We chose DC's school based on curriculum (this was one of the only schools to offer a particular subject), sport offered, distance and ease of journey. Most importantly, was feel; could we see them there? Some schools just couldn't see it, even though coveted by others. Try not to be swayed by others opinion on a particular school, but do take on board friends' experiences / views of DCs there. Good luck!

FlumePlume · 03/09/2018 20:13

@Glaciferous All really interesting, thank you!

@sandybayley I expected to get that feeling about Tiffin, but didn’t on the open day. We’ll see if we get the option - but even if not, I think the early exam dates mean it’s good practice in being in exam conditions.

OP posts:
sandybayley · 03/09/2018 20:53

@FlumePlume - I think that's why it's so important to visit schools rather than rely on the (well intentioned!) views of others.

I think Tiffin is an outstanding school but it just didn't feel right for DD. The experience of doing the test will be a good opportunity for you and your DD to take another look and it's good practice. Be prepared for a huge scrum on the day as Kingston grinds to a halt!

whenwillsummerend · 03/09/2018 21:18

The Tiffin exams were an eye opener! The queues! Never seen anything like it!

Glaciferous · 03/09/2018 22:36

God yes, the queues were incredible. Totally agree that visiting is essential. I thought various places might be a good fit for DD but felt very differently after actually seeing them! I don't think league table matters as much as you might think, personally. For instance, in the state sector, we looked at Grey Court which has an outstanding Ofsted and parents rave about it, but actually in many ways I thought some less well-regarded schools would actually have suited DD a lot better. There were also schools in the independent sector that I did not think would suit DD at all. As she got into both the selective schools we thought would be a good fit, I think I got it right.

The queue thing is partly why we opted for SPGS - they managed the whole process so much better and in a way that made the children feel valued and special regardless of results. DD felt like she'd had an amazing experience regardless of what happened in the exams. I know Tiffin probably doesn't have much choice about this but we were lucky enough to have a choice as to whether we went for the state route or not.

Greenleave · 03/09/2018 23:12

Ofcourse the queue should be long, especially for super selective ones like Tiffin and ofcourse service wont be as 5 star as the paid Indie entrance exam(£150-£300 for the exam fee). Its a great and one of the best girl school in the country and it is FREE so no wonder. I brought my daughter to KGS 10+ earlier this year for both the exam and interview and agree its like going to a music audition however I expected it because I paid for it.

Glaciferous · 04/09/2018 07:49

It's not about the numbers of people applying. It's about the organisation of the process and how those people are treated as a consequence. Do you mean people should only be treated well if they're paying for the privilege?

While I keep saying Tiffin may have had less choice than independent schools in how to manage the process, there are still aspects of it that could have been managed far better, IMO. A queue of 2000 people in the rain for hours says very clearly 'we don't actually care about you, we'll be fine whatever'.

TheExtraGuineaPig · 04/09/2018 15:05

Hi everyone - finding this thread really helpful thank you! Dd is applying to Tiffin, LEH and SHS. She has a strong preference for LEH but it's the only one she's seen. Not sure if we should add another choice. She is doing very well at her primary so I hope she will be able to get into LEH but I'm not really sure of the expected standard.

Sunshine5050 · 04/09/2018 17:40

Theextraguineapig - going through the first round of tiffin in terms of nerves and the result will give you an idea. Visit somewhere like Radnor House/ st catherine's that you can have as a back up application if you need it in November. SHS changed their exam last year & made the maths more difficult. Dds tend to love the SHS open days, they sell the 6 super sports very well.

montenuit · 05/09/2018 08:04

Depending where you live TheExtraGuineaPig I would add another. Tiffin is out of the way quite early so you can do 3 independents in Jan.
Assuming you want all girls, how about SWPS? Wimbledon High?

montenuit · 05/09/2018 08:05

Is your state option good if you don't get Tiffin?

User19992018 · 05/09/2018 09:49

This reply has been withdrawn

The OP has privacy concerns and so we've agreed to take this down.