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Secondary education

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Original poster

Do SATs results determine sets for English and Maths in Year 7?

36 replies

s4rah19 · 26/08/2018 17:39

Do schools use these results to sort the kids into sets for these two subjects? Does anyone know what sort of scores would mean they were placed in the top two sets? Thanks

OP posts:
Ta1kinpeace · 26/08/2018 17:41

It depends on the school
they each do their own thing
and it varies year on year
and the amount they reshuffle sets each term varies between schools and across years

Lonecatwithkitten · 26/08/2018 17:46

Some schools do CATS.
Some schools do mixed ability sets for between half a term and the first year to decide sets, some do mixed ability forever.
Some use SATS, catchment will have a huge effect on what scores get you in the top sets.

MilkItTilITurnItIntoCheese · 26/08/2018 17:49

Not in our school. They retest kids at some point in the first term and usually set after Christmas. They only seem to use SATs results as a guide for whether the child is tracking a similar level as they go through years 7 and 8. Adding to predictions from their own testing and classwork along the way.

PattiStanger · 26/08/2018 18:06

It depends on the school, if you need to know for sure I'd ring and ask them once the new term starts

RedSkyLastNight · 26/08/2018 18:23

As well as it depending on the school as to whether they use SATs results to set (adding another "DC's school doesn't here) it will also depend on the school what the standard is for the top set(s). It will also vary between schools whether they set in strict order (so set 1 is higher than set 2 is higher than set 3 ...) or whether there might be 2 different set 1s or whether the school might timetable and set within (say) 3 strands.
Above all, I'd query why you are even asking? Your question should be (once your child has actually started) "is my child in the correct set for their abilities? Are they being taught at an appropriate level?" Also bear in mind that the school may use the first part of year 7 to recap and ensure everyone has covered the same material. They may not be covering new things (or being stretched) at first.

cptartapp · 26/08/2018 19:15

They did for both my DS who were placed in th top set at secondary and despite retesting them all there was very little if no movement. DS1 took the old SATS and got a 5, DS2 was the first year with the new SATS and scored 117. I gather he's in the top third of his class but by no means the best.

Original poster
s4rah19 · 26/08/2018 19:51

So in previous years when they were graded 4a, 4b etc is it now just the number? I think my Niece got the expected levels: 107 for English Reading, 103 English Grammar and 105 for Maths. I'm pretty sure I read that's the expected levels.

OP posts:
Ta1kinpeace · 26/08/2018 20:01

SATs are checking up on the school
not the pupil
Secondaries quite often totally ignore SATs
stress not

Cachailleacha · 26/08/2018 20:32

Ours used CATs and a placement test to set after the October half term. SATs say more about the school, and not necessarily about the quality of teaching.

MrsPworkingmummy · 26/08/2018 20:41

SAT results are used to generate GCSE targets in ALL subjects so they are really quite important in that respect . This is then how ofsted measure the success of secondary schools. When the word 'progress' is used in ofsted reports, it refers to whether the child is likely to achieve their GCSE target which is generated from the SATs score. Schools can increase these targets but are absolutely not allowed to reduce them. The secondary school has no control in this respect. In regards to the new SATs scoring 100 is the average score, anything over 115 is considered 'greater depth' and means it is likely the child will have GCSE targets of 8 and 9s. In old money, 110+ would be level 5, 100 to 109 level 4 etc

bookmum08 · 26/08/2018 20:49

Private Primary schools don't even bother with sats and parents have the right to withdraw their children from taking them. So a Secondary wouldn't be able to use the results for sets as not all year 7s will have taken them.

AllPizzasGreatAndSmall · 26/08/2018 21:03

What others have said, it varies from school to school. For example the school my son went to setted for maths only until year 9, the sets were based on SATs results as well as reports from primary schools.
As others have said the marks needed for top set etc. will depend on cohort/catchment. In a high achieving school I imagine the children in top set will have achieved 120 or very close and will have been teacher assessed at working above the expected level, but in another school 110 could put you in top set.
The marks your niece got are around the average attained, which means she is comfortably working at the expected level, but she would not be considered a higher attainer.

simpson · 26/08/2018 23:39

My DS’s school use SATS results to set in yr7 initially (they also go on feedback from primary schools and try to visit as many as they can in the borough).

They do CAT testing about 2 weeks in to yr7 and there is minimal movement ie they have got the kids into the correct set for their ability in the first place.

Subsequent years are set based on attainment and effort the previous year. IE one of DS’s friends moved from top set to 3rd (out of 6) for yr8 because he was the class clown and put zero effort in and didn’t test well in yr7.

Hersetta427 · 29/08/2018 14:31

Ours uses them to set initially then by
October half term they do CAT's and things are jiggled around a little.

Will be interesting to see how the sat scores correlate to sets. DD scored above a minimum of 110 in all tests so hoping that will mean she is in the top sets - we shall see.

MaisyPops · 29/08/2018 14:33

We use them initially for grouping but subjects that set they will adjust after the assessments at half term.

Hersetta427 · 29/08/2018 14:35

I thought anything over 110 was considered greater depth - not 115?

AlexanderHamilton · 29/08/2018 14:35

Some schools don't set at all in Year 7. Some set after October half term. Some schools have 5 sets, some schools have 10 sets.

Neither of my chidlren did SATS.

mummyeme · 29/08/2018 14:44

They do at my dds school and are still determining sets for y10 even though they did CATs in y7. Not very happy with it as friends parents knew this and hothoused their kids for the SATS so they're now set above my daughter for English in spite of my dd getting consistently higher marks for the past 2 years. The school write on their teaching group letter that English sets are determined by SATS results and other subjects relate to attainment throughout the year and on end of years. Thankfully for Maths and Science they go by actual attainment so she's progressed to the right sets for those. Apparently children can't progress in English and your ability is decided age 10. Really glad she's having a childhood and her English will be up to what we achieve together and the support she has at home.

newusername12345 · 29/08/2018 18:29

Can I ask why are you asking this question? Expected levels are not going to put your niece in the top sets...
MrsPworkingmummy anything over 110 is considered a high score, some people call it "greater depth" but you can only achieve greater depth in the writing assessment.

I would imagine that children who scored above 110 in all subjects and achieved greater depth in writing, will have a good chance of being in the top 2 groups, this obviously depends on the school and how academic they are.

JiltedJohnsJulie · 30/08/2018 17:46

Not at our school or at least not for long. They spend the first 2 weeks testing the pupils then they all get moved around for maths, English and science.

Cachailleacha · 30/08/2018 20:41

I would imagine that children who scored above 110 in all subjects and achieved greater depth in writing, will have a good chance of being in the top 2 groups, this obviously depends on the school and how academic they are.
Mine got below 110 in all subjects and is in the top set for maths at a high achieving school (English not set). Luckily the school didn't set based on SATs.

Ohyesiam · 30/08/2018 20:44

My oh is a maths teacher. At his school they don’t go on sats, all kids are retested and reshuffled once they have settled in.

OuiOuiMonAmi · 30/08/2018 23:14

My DD's school was annoying - she was HE in Y5 & 6 so didn't take SATs. "Not to worry! We use our own tests!" said the school. Bollocks, they did. She took the Y7 CAT tests yet she was given the lowest target grade possible in every subject because "she didn't take SATs so we have nothing else to go on", FFS. Cue lots of teachers who were confused about her low targets as she is quite bright. Not to mention a then blase DD, who smashed her low target by doing very little work so didn't bother to try. It took 3 years to get it sorted.

OpalBerry · 01/09/2018 10:49

Dd was all set to do SATs but then her dad died just before they started and she was too shocked and upset for it to have been appropriate for her to take them. Just hope it doesn't disadvantage her at secondary

OpalBerry · 01/09/2018 10:52

Her school definitely do use SATs to determine sets