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Secondary education

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Original poster

Would appreciate secondary teachers' advice re difficult DS

30 replies

lilolilmanchester · 04/06/2007 19:44

Sorry, I know you've all had enough after a day at school, but would appreciate teachers' thoughts here. My Yr9 DS is bright BUT won't work, distracts other children in class, seems to have almost daily - and definitely weekly - notes in his homework diary. Regularly in detention and on report.Says he finds everything boring. It's a really uphill battle to get him to do homework, or to do it well, and we regularly get phone calls from school. He is very bright, but he's at a selective grammar school, which has loads of bright kids so it's not like he isn't being stretched. Story has been similar all the way through primary too. He's quite immature behaviourally and we live in hope that things will get better when he matures a bit - but that just doesn't seem to be happening. It's causing major problems between him and my DH - and between me and my DH. Any thoughts?

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octo · 04/06/2007 19:50

He seems to be quite normal! I have been a secondary teacher and special needs TA and lots of boys go through this. I know it seems babyish but how about a reward system for him at home. Would also have a look through his books and see what kind of effort you think he is making in his work - ask him about it - ask what he thinks could be better - do the same with homework and reward him - works wonders

If its concentration - some people recommend fish oils - personally know nothing about them but someone will!

Original poster
lilolilmanchester · 04/06/2007 19:57

Thanks Octo. A lot of people say "that's boys for you" but he is 10x worse than his pals. I regularly look through his books and am horrified at some of them. Occasionally he gets switched on by something and does really well. I'd hoped that at secondary that he'd find some subjects he'd love and therefore do really well in. And fully expected there'd be some subjects he'd hate and not work for. But even things like Maths and Science, which he's good at (top set, selective grammar), he doesn't seem to be making much effort in and his teachers are tearing their hair out. Tried the reward system, but doesn't seem to work. Had him on fish oil supplements. Not seemed to make much difference. Part of me says just stop worrying about it, keep encouraging etc but then we get ANOTHER phone call from school and it's hard not to worry.

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Original poster
lilolilmanchester · 04/06/2007 20:08

Also, sometimes I think that if he was at a comprehensive or secondary school, his attitude/behaviour would probably be seen by teachers as more normal (not trying to be contentious here - I was at a comp so know what I mean even if I haven't articulated it properly). Perhaps the fact that he's at a high achieving school and not achieving his potential/applying himself like the majority of the pupils there is the issue? Or am I just trying to convince myself that he's not too bad?

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roisin · 04/06/2007 20:10

Is he happy with the options he has chosen for next year? A lot of children do settle down a lot in yr10 - it's partly having ditched the subjects they really hate, and partly just growing up a bit.

He's probably sick to death of the same old stories/reasons from you and from his teachers; so I would enlist the help of all and sundry - especially males - whenever you can. Do you have relatives or friends that he looks up to and admires? Interrogate your friends, and see if you can find people to tell him the following stories. (If they can act, get them to make it up!):

"I didn't work as hard as I could have done at school, and I didn't get in to the courses I could have done at Uni, and because of my idleness I ended up working ten times harder later on to get where I wanted to be. ..."

and

"I didn't really enjoy school, and found a lot of the schoolwork pointless, but I realised it just had to be endured and got on with; so I knuckled down and got the grades I deserved. My family were really proud of me, and it meant the next stage was plain sailing ..."

and

"I used to muck around at school, and play the fool, and distract the other children. Then one day we got a new teacher who I really got on with, and he sat down with me and had a chat, and I suddenly saw things from his perspective, and realised what a pain I was being, and how my behaviour wasn't fair on the other students in the class who wanted to learn ..."

Do bear in mind too that if you're going to choose a time to rebel a bit then yr8/9 is not a bad time. Stress to him that next yr his GCSE courses are starting, and it is getting serious, and he must knuckle down and get the work done.

Finally! Try and relax a bit - especially if it's causing probs with your dh. Ultimately it would be great for him to learn a lesson that he has the responsibility for his learning, not you, his teachers, or anyone else. And plenty of bright boys do muck around at school, manage to scrape through with 'just enough', and go own to succeed and achieve great things in the future.

roisin · 04/06/2007 20:11

I'm sure there's a lot of truth in your last post too. You are lucky he's at the school he is at, where they are very interested in the results of every single child; and are not prepared for him to fail to achieve his potential.

octo · 04/06/2007 20:15

He is obviously bright and this will drive hie teachers potty - it is very frustrating as a teavher to have bright kids that don't work or put the effort in - but believe it or not they have a tendency to come out well in tests and put the effort in when required. Kind of the path of least effort. I would ask the school for a meeting between you, his tutor and head of year to discuss a way forward before he gets into too much trouble. He is behaving badly because he is bored, not putting the time into his work and therefore has time to mess about. The school need to implement some kind of report card that gives him say 3 targets for the week and if he achieves them he comes off the report. He will also see you mean business and that you and the school are united.

beckybrastraps · 04/06/2007 20:15

To be perfectly honest, there isn't really much incentive for him to knuckle down ATM. He is presumably doing OK, as he's in the top sets, and in year 9 it doesn't really matter.

I tend not to tear my hair out with bright but lazy boys (in Science that is) because they almost always come up with the goods in the end.

Original poster
lilolilmanchester · 04/06/2007 20:20

Thanks Roisin, a lot of sense in what you say. Yes, he's happy with his options (not that they have a lot of choices, but going with triple science). He really wants to do engineering and we've got a good friend who's an engineer has agreed to give him a pep talk next time we're out walking/camping together and maybe even take him out to a couple of project sites over the summer, in the hope that he will become so enthused by the end results that he buckles down to do the work necessary to get him there in the end. I like your suggestions re what other people could say to him too, will work on that. Yes, we're extremely lucky with the school - and I've been really impressed with the teachers we've spoken to. Part of me hopes that he'll get really bad SATS results to shake him up a bit. Agree, better to be like this now than in GCSE years- but we've had it for ever and really getting very wearing. (Anyone know when we get teh Yr 9 SATs results? DS reckons it's late summer, after GCSE results are out?)

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beckybrastraps · 04/06/2007 20:22

It is early July. I'm marking them now

Blandmum · 04/06/2007 20:24

Get him put on report. That way you can see if there are any particular patterns to his poor behaviour. It will also give you the basis for a discussion about his behavior.

Get someone with a hard, poorly paid job to take him to work for the day, so that he can see what happens if you don't get the qualifications that you need

roisin · 04/06/2007 20:25

Maths and Science SATs are out before the end of term.

English SATs are on the same day as GCSEs (mid-August)

Blandmum · 04/06/2007 20:26

also agree with becky.

I taught a boy last year who never did any work for me in two years. Got an A*. Hard to bollock a kid like that. I'm sure that your ds will be fine.

As a teacher he would probably have me tearing my hair out

Original poster
lilolilmanchester · 04/06/2007 20:26

Octo, I feel for his teachers, I really do. School has a 3 stage report card system - green, moving to amber and red if they don't respond. He's frequently on a green card, but seems to respond well to that and hasn't yet been put on to amber. Then they take him off report and his behaviour regresses. Speak to his form tutor fairly regularly, who says we just have to keep chipping away. Asked for meeting with tutor and head of year but it hasn't happened yet. We keep reminding them....
Scary thought - would be very easy to identify DS if any of his school's teachers are on MN. Mmmmm!

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Original poster
lilolilmanchester · 04/06/2007 20:28

thank you so much for all of your responses, really appreciated, and hope none of you teach him (although actually, he has a very lovely side, I just hope some of his teachers see that side too!)

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octo · 04/06/2007 20:29

Its very common for kids to do well on report then revert to bad habits straight away - its infuriating. Amber sounds good to me and chase them for that meeting!

beckybrastraps · 04/06/2007 20:30

I like sparky boys. I don't really mind that much if they're lazy. Less marking

DH was dreadful at school BTW. Sailed through with no work at all. He's done all right

Blandmum · 04/06/2007 20:30

Agree 100% octo, see it all the time. Drives you mad, not sure what the solution is.

octo · 04/06/2007 20:31

lil - teachers tend to make more of a fuss about kids they like not achieving because they really want them to do well - sweeping generalisation I know!

Blandmum · 04/06/2007 20:31

Beacause I'm only teaching 6th form atm, I have a week with no teaching, because they are off on study leave!!!!!!!!!

beckybrastraps · 04/06/2007 20:31

Not a huge fan of reports TBH. They have very little in the way of long term consequences IME.

Original poster
lilolilmanchester · 04/06/2007 20:33

thanks again all, need to drop off now to do something else. Will be back again later.

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Blandmum · 04/06/2007 20:37

I think that can be useful diagnosically, IYSWIM. So, do they drop off the plot after lunch, are they eating lunch?

Is there a flash point with a particular teacher, is there a particular classroom dynamic that is not helpful, that sort of thing.

It can also be helpful if the parents are unaware of the level of the problem, good to get things down on paper (not the case here I realise) and it stops the 'Mrs MB just picks on me' line

octo · 04/06/2007 20:39

Is he being bullied? Has he fallen out with friends? does he fancy someone?

Oh the mind of a teenage boy!

I have three boys and dreading the teenage thing! All spots and trainers!

Hassled · 04/06/2007 20:41

My oldest, nearly 20 year old, DS sounds exactly like your DS when he was that age - and I'm afraid for a long while after that. He is bright enough that he always did OK, although never up to his potential, he messed about, got into endless trouble at school (the highlight being the purchase of 4 cans of Stella on a train at 7.30 a.m. while on a school trip, and then lying about it - it's sort of funny now). Like you I was tearing my hair out. I have no solutions, because I never "solved" it, but I can tell you that now he's at University (after A Level retakes), he's suddenly mature, enthusiastic about his subject, is getting Firsts in essays, seems conscientious and ambitious - all the things he just couldn't be at school. What I'm trying (clumsily) to say is that these things pass, it has no bearing on how he will be in a few years time and as long as he knows he is loved and supported then really you've done everything you can.

Blandmum · 04/06/2007 20:42

and 'The great smell of Lynx' Barff!!!

I quite like teaching the naughty boys too.

Sometimes they just muck about because they want to muck about!