If you live in a non grammar school area...

[Gobbledigook]

...what are your secondary schools like?

Is there still competition to get into certain ones, like at primary level, or do you just go to the nearest/local one and that's it?

Am off out now so will check back later. I'm just interested.

Oh yes Roisin - we've got a 'high school' (our automatic catchment secondary) at a whopping 26% - er, no thanks!!

Fingers crossed mine pass the 11+ - ha ha! Quite a high % from their primary school do pass and go the first or second grammar on that list.

Oh, it's a mine field!!

Like you say though, our non-selective secondaries are doing well adn getting better every year.

Not as bad as 15% though

15% is pretty impressive on a national level actually

I'm sure comprehensives reach a point where they are at a ceiling with results, which leads to frustration from teachers - they simply cannot teach any better, and they are getting the best they can out of the raw material they have to work with, whetehr that be 25%, 35% or 45%.

I know it seems like a cop-out, but we would first need to re-define what we mean by selection. For me it's not just dividing people into "academic" and "non-academic". the ideal system, plays to everyone's strengths, but that just isn't possible in the system we have with the limited resources there will inevitably be. I don't see the point, for example, of forcing soemone to do a GCSE in French when they are only going to get the lowest possible grade and it'll be meaningless for them, just so the school can scrape an extra meagre point on the league table. Because, let's be honest, that's why they do it - it's nothing to do with getting the best out of the kids.

All successful economies need a skills mix, and that inevitably means deciding, at some point, (I don't know when) that some people's skills lie in some areas and not in others. It means getting ourselves out of the mindset that academic=better and non-academic/vocational=sub-standard, and thinking in more pragmatic and less judgemental ways.

As I said before, if my hairdresser wanted to do A-Level French and go back to university, she has the chance in 2007 to do so, which she didn't in 1987.

go back to school/college to get to university, I mean.

Two crap school, in fact 3 really.
Thenan excellent school that is catholicc.

Well, I would absolutely agree with some of that. I loathed teaching about atomic structure to my bottom sets. Well, actually, they quite enjoyed doing electronic configuration because it was all number patterns to them, and they could say "two electrons in the first shell and seven in the next shell" and sound really clever without actually having a scooby about what an electron, or even an atom, might actually be. Why do we insist that these children learn this stuff rather than the things they find interesting and/or useful? Anyway, I'm absolutely all for vocational qualifications. And for me, it's not about redefining selection, but about redefining post-14 education.

Our local secondary school has just gone into special measures. Its academic results are slightly above average but OFSTED's view is that because we live in an affluent area the results should be a lot higher.

We only have one state secondary so there is no competition but a lot of people go to the private school.

I'm always rather surpised to see that independent schools can have such uninspiring results. I thought that was the point of private. It stretched the clever ones and chivvied the not so clever into good grades. So what's with 59% A - Cs?

Explanation one: Independents' results can be skewed by the fact that they don't always do GCSEs - some do the IGCSE which doesn't count on league tables. I think.

Explanation two: they are full of rich but thick/lazy kids.

people bandy these phrses abiout how many apply for the places and i feel much of it is here say
i have no way of knowing how many applied to me dcs schools so how do you all?

If you take IGCSE it doesn't count on the official tables as a GCSE pass - so at DS' school, which changed to IGCSE Maths, the percentage getting 5 GCSE's A*-C including English and Maths has gone down from 100% to 0%.

I live in Brighton where the council is trying to introduce the lottery system (I think that some parents are challenging the legality of it atm). The theory is that there are catchment areas for all the secondary schools (apart from the RC one i presume) and within the catchment it doesn't matter how far you live from the school, you are all put into a lottery for a place. Of course there are some schools that are considered better than others. The boundaries have been redrawn so that some deprived areas fall into the catchment areas for the 2 good schools, and some "good" areas which fell into that catchment area have been moved to a less good area - of course those middle class parents are up in arms.

I think the theory is that the people from the less middle class areas will be able to get into the 2 good secondary schools (which up until now are have been fairly middle class). I suppose in practice, those people will just sell their houses at inflated prices and be pushed to another area as the middle classes move in.

Is there still a need for the private schools in areas where there are a lot of grammars (Kent and Bucks especially) on the basis of not having to keep precious darlings away from the oiks at the comp

That could change the pass rates as independent results are not usually counted in the tables

Otter, the LEA tells you when they send that pack asking for you to state your places. Eg in my ds's grammar school the year before he joined, it said there were 120 places and about 900 applications, then said that places were given out in the first tranche to children living (I think)1.3 miles away, then 1.7 miles away etc. Therefore, even if a child passed the 11 plus, if he lived more than say 1.7 miles away he didn't get in.

Your LEA should provide you wiht the info.

thankyou for that. is that a grammar mumblechum?

The one he goes to is, yes, but in the pack, the LEA stated the situ for both grammars and uppers.

if you live in a non grammar school area ... you should celebrate.

All children will stand a decent chance and nobody gets made a reject at 11.

Most local comprehensives are actually doing a great job, don't be afraid of them. My kids go to the local comp and are doing great, no regrets.

How nice for you to live in an area where all the schools are good, HappyHenry.

I wonder how much the houses cost there.

HappyHenry - no grammar schools here, aren't I lucky, my nearest on went through special measures 5 years ago and is still at the bottom of county league tables.....I'm so thrilled that dd will be going there.........

We have no grammars either. I am terrified DS will have to go to the nearest comp, my niece went there and was bullied for 3 years with no resolution...school just kept wanting to "talk about the bully's feelings". Their last ofsted report that has been published was 2002 and it was not great academically then either. There is a good state boys school slightly further away, hoping when time comes ds will get there...we could not afford to move into another area or clser to this school. So no choice here, and like pp's have said house prices near the other school through the roof. But ds is only in reception now and i know there is an lea review ongoing, so things may change or imprive drastically (i hope).

we have no grammars here although I am being put under a lot of pressure from my whole family, my dd family and my dp top move to Lancaster so dd can get into a grammar as I have refused to send her private.

My options are for 5 a-c's are (first figure 5 a-c second figure incudes maths and english)

c of e secondary 89% or 69%

1. private 88% 85%

2.fee paying grammar school 88% or 88%

3.joint closest state school 76% 0r 45%

4.charming but faded minor public school 69% or 88%

5.catholic school in next LEA 60% or 55%

6.catholic school 58% or 47%

7.Rather good humantiies college 46% or 28%

8. joint closest state school 46% or 28%

9.Church of England school on the definite up 45% or 30%

10.rather rough but fab facilties sports college 41% or 34%

11.state school I teach at, 32% or 19%

12. state school 44% or 29%

Out of the privates the fee paying grammar IMO is the best I have visited them all but being a leftie private is out for me.

Dd is at a catholic primary so the C of E schools are unlikely to take us and if she were to go to a church school it would be unlikely to be a Cof E one as that would not make sense. I also have moral issues with a church school (number 9) that is proud to be getting rid of kids from council estates to attract more m/c families.

State school number 4 which is in my village is very hard to get in but It would not be my choice as I think they do not do well enough with the kids they have, I think their teaching is unimaginative and kids underachieve. But if dd wanted to go there that would be fine.

If we lived closer I would consider the humanities college as I think it is very good and being a teacher I do have some inside knowledge.

In all honesty dd will probably go to one of the catholic schools where competition is fierce to get in but we are church regulars so dd would get in.

I would worry about her being at the other state schools but I know dd would do well whatever school she went to and I would try my hardest to support her and the school.

As for how do teachers choose where to teach, part of it isn't a choice in a town like mine there are not many jobs but I wanted to teach in a school that was a challenge, to teach kids from my own very poor background and I think that I am too good a teacher to go for the easy option so although I could have got jobs in "easier" schools I chose not to.

The very good state school has certainly pushed house prices up but our primaries are also very good so I think it is a combination of the two.

I have mixed feelings about grammars, I do think that selction by ability is fairer than selection by mortgage which is what happens now, although the only schools that don;t seem to do this in our LEA are the catholic ones as they take kids from all over the LEA and over the border but that is another thread.

If poor bright kids did have an equal chance with bright rich kids I may even be in favour of them but that is not the case as we all know.

It is hard though as in our town with the excpetion of the catholic schools there is a selection according to income all be it not an openly declared one. All the kids from nice areas go the the higher achieving state schools and then the school I teach at takes the kids no one wants or the ones whose parents could not be bothered making an informed choice with the odd leftie do gooder like myself who wants to support there local school.