iGCSEs

[montenuit]

So now the GCSEs have become more rigorous, more content, grades up to 9 (A**) are they harder than iGCSEs?

iGCSEs were often preferred by some independent schools, because they are a better foundation for A level. Is that still the case?

Have they changed/increased content too? They also have changed to grades 9-1.

@needmoresleep you never disappoint. Seriously, thanks - this education lark is a constant process of hearing something I haven't heard before, and thinking "What fresh hell is this". A gasbag makes a comment along the lines of "And he's isn't even doing Add Maths" and I'm immediately thinking, gosh, neither's DS, the school keeps telling me he's absolutely fine, they must be trying to keep me quiet.

gillybeanz it's about a quarter of the length of his other works, but short doesn't mean much with Dickens, does it! The themes are pretty fertile, though. Might re-read it, actually...

gilly and wijjy My DD is also doing Hard Times. Perhaps we need a self-help thread

If the school have choice over text, do they usually keep to the same ones each year, or might they change depending on cohort?
particularly asking about cie igcse First English and Lit in English, whatever they are called so not derailing, honestly.

Surely if unis are only allowed to take GCSEs into account the incentive for private schools would disappear
What about the kids at international schools overseas? They have no choice other than iGCSE. Should they be punished at uni choice time because of where their parents are working?

My DS had to do Great Expectations for GCSE last year. Needless to say, we had small expectations of the success of this choice by his aspirational insane teacher.

I don't think he ever read it.

I like Dickens but not sure most teenagers would agree : unless it's Christmas Carol because a) short b) Muppets.

My son's private school was very clear that they would switch over to the new 1 -9 GCSEs if they were seen after their introduction to be more rigorous and a better preparation for A level and PreU than the current IGCSE. They stuck with IGCSE for maths and English in his year (last year) because the system was new, the materials were late and they didn't need to switch and face the uncertainty.

My son did a mixture of IGCSE and GCSE based on the school's assessment of the content. The English IGCSE board he did had no coursework or controlled assessment for either language or literature and the only subjects that had controlled assessments were the two GCSEs he did in History and Drama.

There is a lot of ignorance/ rumour about igcses on this thread. The content of the igcses and specifications are easily accessible online for both CIE and Edexcel and it can be seen there are a number of combinations eg in English as to how students are examined or assessed. It is the schools' choice. Bear in mind those that opt for a coursework element generally also come with higher grade boundaries.

DS's superselective choses the board and exam whether igcse/gcse using a number of factors such as preparation for A level, the likelihood that students would be interested in the content. As an indie they are not constrained by the need to perform well in state tables using progress 8.

Having 50 Oxbridge offers this year for 2018 uni entry their choice of mainly igcse does not appear to be hindering their students.

By the way it is compulsory at the school to do Maths, both English, 3 separate sciences, a MFL plus 3 options. So it is definitely not the case that there is no igcse physics

My dd will take hers in 2020 and will do:
Music - Edexcel
Maths - Edexel
Eng lang and Lit - CIE/ IGCSE
Combined Science trilogy - GCSE /AQA
German - GCSE /AQA
Art and Design - GCSE/ AQA

All were compulsory apart from Art.

8 in total

@cakeisalwaystheanswer - you are mistaken. IIRC you are in SW London - my child at a top SW London girls private school is doing 2 separate sciences for GCSE next year and has dropped Physics.

The fact it isn’t hindering Oxbridge applications is exactly the point and the concern that is raised

You’ll need A equivalent for Oxbridge. Igcse appears to be easier so privates are picking them to gain more chance of getting As. State kids don’t get that opportunity.

Not fair. Clearly either students should be allowed to get lower GCSE grades than in IGCSE or IGCSE should be disregarded in uni applications.

Uni applications are based on A levels not (i)GCSEs

You seem to think privates pick iGCSEs this year because they are easier, whereas what has actually happened is that iGCSEs were deemed harder than the dumbed down GCSEs in previous years. Many privates have continued with the iGCSEs , I.e. they have not changed from their iGCSEs, what’s changed is the new 9-1 GCSEs curriculum (for Maths) have become harder.

Afaik iGCSEs ( for maths anyway) are also under reform to make them harder in line with the new 9-1 style, but that will be rolled out couple years later.

The dust has yet to settle from the new 9-1 GCSEs and it is all in a state of transition at the moment.

P3onyPenny

My DC did one random iGCSE between them (physics, can't remember why if I ever knew), so I have no axe to grind, but there is currently no reliable evidence that iGCSEs are either easier or harder than GCSEs. There is anecdotal evidence, but that's hardly conclusive as people are divided on the relative difficulty of the two types.

I'll happily change my mind if evidence comes available, but for the moment I don't think there is the screaming injustice that the (poorly reported) Sunday Times/Daily Mail articles would have us believe.

I have taught both the new GCSE and the new iGCSE. In terms of content, the GCSE is harder. However, schools are not getting better-prepared students due to low grade boundaries for the GCSE last year.

For the new iGCSE, we have to wait and see. General feeling when we saw the papers was they were very doable for students with just a couple of questions that made us think for a few seconds. Out of the two papers, there was one question that I had to put pen on paper to do it properly to arrive at the answer.

It isn't just IGCSE that has a non-exam unweighted speaking assessment, GCSE WJEC/Eduqas Eng Lang does as well. DD's school has changed to GCSEs for some subjects including English and she now has to waste time preparing a presentation in GCSE year that has nothing to do with her exam, but like CIEs extra/unnecessary bits it must be completed. Madness.

I get annoyed that the obsession of MN with the CIE English Language IGCSE means that the historic dumbing down of GCSE languages is ignored. The difference between IGCSE and GCSE languages before the recent restructuring was huge, and who did that benefit? DCs with no real knowledge of a language got an A* GCSE certificate but no real preparation for studying a language at A level. GCSE students were at a huge disadvantage starting language A levels, many dropped out and the number of pupils taking A level languages is at an all time low. And now that the GCSE has been geared up younger siblings are struggling with a subject that the older ones had little work to do to get a good grade, making them feel that they are bad at languages. What a mess.

GCSE vs iGCSE

For most Independent schools – especially the high performing ones, it does not make sense to say that they have stuck to IGCSEs to avoid the new, supposedly tougher GCSEs. There are a couple or three reasons:

i. They were taking the IGCSE when it was perceived to be more Challenging than GCSEs
ii. Encouraging an easier pre-sixth form qualification is not a good preparation for A-level, IB or Pre-U
iii. With all the hullabaloo surrounding the new 9-1, grade, why should anyone with a choice abandon what they’ve been doing successfully and get into the choppy waters of the new GCSE at such a turbulent time?

There are dreadful private schools out there, where I’ll never dream of sending my child, even if you pay me! At he same time there are brilliant state schools out there, where bright young people shine against all odds. As a parent, you may perhaps have won a mini lottery of life if you’ve managed to get your child into one of a handful of good state schools that exist. Sadly, the vast majority of state schools are nothing but despite tremendous effort by excellent teachers who do their best...

I suspect, the reason why some are accusing independent schools of going for the easier option could be one of, self-gratification, ideological and resentment felt by many against independent schools? We have to remember that not everyone with a child in a private school is a millionaire…

It’ll be nice to be in a world, where we all recognise the strength and weaknesses of others, learn any lesson we could from them and celebrate success irrespective of which camp they belong

As a parent, you may perhaps have won a mini lottery of life if you’ve managed to get your child into one of a handful of good state schools that exist

Ooh, do name them, please

Is that a joke? There are many many excellent state schools. I may moan about my school but it is massively over subscribed , very popular, Ofsted outstanding and very high performing. Three schools within a five to ten mile radius are equally good.

Many would tell you how superb some of the state grammar school are : I have my own views on that system but would not dispute how superb the schools can be.

Where are you imusty? I live in SW London and the majority of state schools are excellent. I read comments like yours and wonder where you are based.

All of the above comments are proof - as far as I am concerned - that there should be one single GCSE examination board. Why have all this competition/easier/harder/private/state school ? it's so typical of the English to get mired down in all this class system rich/poor competitive bollocks isn't it? so typical that the private schools need to be a little bit different from the plebs in the state sector.

One board, one exam, one recognisable standard.

This was CIEs chief executive’s response in this weeks Sunday Times to Richard Cairns (Brighton college head) claims regarding IGCSEs:

IGCSES AS TOUGH AS NEW GCSES
As creators of the IGCSE, we would like to clarify that it is every bit as rigorous as England’s new GCSE (“Private schools shun tough GCSEs”, News, last week). We align the standard of the Cambridge IGCSE with England’s GCSE, and check regularly that we are getting it right by using statistical evidence and analytical methods developed over many decades.

Observers of UK curriculum reform know the Cambridge IGCSE — with its demanding content and rigorous assessment at the end of the course — was in fact a model for the design of the new GCSE in England.
Michael O’Sullivan, chief executive, Cambridge Assessment International Education
DS did a mix of GSCEs and IGCSEs this summer and because weren’t many pass papers he used sample papers from different exam boards to practise with and I marked them. I thought in terms of difficulty they were very similar and didnt think any were easier than others. I suspect Brighton College never taught IGCSEs and there wouldn’t have been there advantage to them to switch to it in the last 2 years. The head is probably trying to manage the expectations of his students and parents when their results this summer are lower than that of previous years. Oxbridge has also said since they are use to different exams because of the international nature of their intake so assessing any difference between GCSEs and IGCSEs is not a problem for them.

Our school used to enter all the lowest ability students for IGCSE as it was easier to get a C.

Yes, on whole, iGCSE were more challenging – except for in English as they are traditional design for students abroad whose English is not their first language. However, the new 9-1 GCSEs have caught up and are perhaps a little harder than GCSEs.

Yes, it is still the case for now. Perhaps when the new GCSE gets it act together, it may be a better foundation for A-level and the independent schools may decide to switch back to it and desert iGCSE.

Yes. That correct – the new 9-1 GCSEs have increased content are a little more challenging than the outgoing A* to G grades

You may be right that one exam board will solve most of the problems; however, a little bit of competition helps innovation and progress. I think having about three exam boards is OK but not more and they should be well regulated.

I used to teach at a school called William Borlase's Grammar School in Marlow in the late nineties (perhaps you can tell that I'm ooold!) Many parents send their children their when they can easily afford a private school. The reason why they opted for that school was because it was better than most private schools...

Dame Alice Owen's in Potters Bar is another excellent state school.

In my subject the IGCSE is much more straightforward in my opinion compared to both new and old GCSE. Questions are worded more simply and a greater number of shorter answers.