iGCSEs

[montenuit]

So now the GCSEs have become more rigorous, more content, grades up to 9 (A**) are they harder than iGCSEs?

iGCSEs were often preferred by some independent schools, because they are a better foundation for A level. Is that still the case?

Have they changed/increased content too? They also have changed to grades 9-1.

cake although the speaking is now separately reported if you don't do it, they claim you won't be awarded your actual GCSE/ IGCSE ...

coursework in more recent pre reform GCSEs was basically an exam . It all had to be done at school, supervised , and in silence. Not so with IGCSE.

Mine will take a mix of GCSE (various boards) and igcse.
Looking through the syllabi they look pretty similar in level, but I have only looked and not studied them at length though.

Piggy - that's nuts.

Marching frogs - one takes girls in for 6th form but 99% of the boys stay on. Joiners tend to be from all girls Indys -it isn't cheap. IMO 6th form isn't good value for money so if someone has good GCSEs from a state school why would they shell out £50k to move for 2 years?
And yes I am aware that lots of state school pupils get A*s at A level. But my point is that in a selective school everyone is going to sit A levels and go on to uni, so as GCSEs quickly become meaningless it makes sense to sit the exam that prepares you best for the important exams. Local grammar schools also sat IGCSE maths until they had to change and again I don't think that was because they wanted an easier option but because practically all of them go on to do A level maths. Selective schools, state or Indy, can make decisions best suited to their cohort.

Anyway, I don't think anyone sensible is going to believe that this year Brighton College should have better GCSE results than Westminster, regardless of any nonsense they come out with.

My older dc in their 20's have been looking at past papers, study and revision guides and both believe that the latest GCSE's are what they expected to do at AS level, in Maths and Science.
This is hardly conclusive evidence of anything, but interesting, I thought.

My dd will take cie igcse in Eng lang and Lit, I'm sure GCSE have to learn as many poems, read as many books.
Can't see many schools choosing Hard Times (thanks to a lovely informative Mneter) I can't remember your nn but thanks.
Gosh, do schools get to choose?

This article was linked to my FB and quite a few teacher friends commented that to their knowledge iGCSE was still easier - eg taking the book into the English lit exam, coursework etc.

Some said they did iGCSE at their schools for retakes as they don't count for progress 8 anyway and they are more likely to pass.

This is somewhat anecdotal I do see.

Horsemadmom you can use as many tenses as you like in the new MFL GCSE! The more the better really :) So I'm not sure why you say iGCSE includes two more tenses.

The difference being Principal that the old style GCSEs were open to anybody and you have to pay for the privilege of having access to IGCSEs. I'd read rumours that some were easier before.

IGCSEs give you an advantage now as they seem to definitely be easier but only the rich can access that privilege. It needs to stop. Surely if unis are only allowed to take GCSEs into account the incentive for private schools would disappear. Wouldn't be hard to sort out. I thought one of the reasons for the new GCSE was shoving everybody down the same route even those who struggle. Not really fair if that only applies to those who can't afford private. Unis are supposed to be making their admissions fairer.

I doubt very much if selective states can do IGCSE as they have to do Progress 8. If they do that should stop too.

And GCSEs clearly aren't or going to be meaningless. If anything they seem to have far more relevance than before.

P3onyPenny
Surely if unis are only allowed to take GCSEs into account the incentive for private schools would disappear

You should be more concerned as to why over 30% of private school pupils taking A levels achieve 3 A grades or better, compared to only 9% of state school pupils. Those figures don't even include pupils at top private schools taking the IB or Pre-U.

To be frank, IGCSE/GCSE Maths is something of a 'warm-up' exercise at DS1's private school - more than half of the Year 11s take Further Maths GCSE or Additional Maths which is a Level 3 qualification. The Head of Maths is already planning STEP preparation for the soon to be Lower Sixth. Top achieving state schools will be doing the same.

I think Tonbridge Grammar School for Girls still teach some IGCSEs but they teach the IB in the Sixth Form. Wilsons (top state school) used to teach IGCSEs in Maths and Science before Progress 8 but they achieved 76 Grade 9s in the new GCSE Maths exam last year - so hardly looking to 'dumb down' when they were teaching IGCSEs.

Piggywaspushed
coursework in more recent pre reform GCSEs was basically an exam . It all had to be done at school, supervised , and in silence. Not so with IGCSE

You obviously missed the teachers' guide on how to cheat in controlled assessments and coursework! Earlier this year, pupils taking Computer Science GCSE (several GCSE exam boards) had all their coursework disallowed because of cheating - teachers were found to be cheating as well. Ironically, It appears that the IGCSE Computer Science exam was unaffected as the coursework doesn't count towards the exam grade.

Why did your school only enter set 3 and below for the IGCSE English Language Exam - why not sets 1 and 2? I have read before that it was considered easier to achieve grade C but harder to achieve A/A* in IGCSE English Language. Which exam did you use for English Literature for set 3 and below - if not the IGCSE, why not?

You should be more concerned as to why over 30% of private school pupils taking A levels achieve 3 A grades or better, compared to only 9% of state school pupils

Because private sixth forms are more selective?

I see your point Clavinova.

Only 4.8% of CIE IGCSE entries were A last year and 66.1% were C or above. Edexcel GCSE entries were 6.1% at A 9/8 and 43.3% at 5 or above. So that does support the theory that IGCSE English Language is easier to get a pass but harder to get an A*. But I do think that its unfair to criticise piggy for entering pupils in for the exam they have the best chance of success with. If her school was split into a grammar, and non-grammar school each school would have the option to choose the best option for each group of students and they are just trying to replicate this.

I do get fed up that this arguement always comes back to one English Language course offering a coursework option that none of the selective schools take. I have no idea how many subjects are available at GCSE but it always comes back down to this one subject and one board. Anyone want to discuss my DS's A* GCSE Italian, of which he doesn't know a word, or the shock of parents with younger DCs who now have to sit a proper language GCSE which is so much harder than the ones the older siblings sat and how unfair it is?

My observation of private schools is they selected on the basis on syllabus, and because they were academic/selective schools their primary concern was that the (i)GCSE would provide a good preparation for A level. And then the A level would be a good preparation for University. (DC did A level Maths OCR MEI, whatever that is, with DD finding she has covered some University level topics coursemates have not touched.)

There is an assumption that schools a primarily concerned with grades. Private schools have a bit more freedom and can prioritise moving their pupils sucessfully onto the next stage.

I also suspect that the interest in international exams will partly be down to a desire to avoid the new GCSE, at least till it has settled down. Again an advantage private schools have, though perhaps not something requiring action. Universities are perfectly capable of considering who has academic advantage and who might benefit from contextualisation. Interestingly DCs school seems to be moving away from A levels and towards Pre-U for both STEM and languages. Again I suspect because they may provide better preparation, with less Government interference. Not many seem to see Pre-U as an easy option.

clavinova, I was specifically talking about English GCSE which never had any issues over 'cheating' because it was done under high control. Bit IGCSE , on the other hand, was open to such abuses (and still is) if one chooses to believe the coursework is cheating DM type twaddle.

The rest of your questions were a matter for departmental policy - not me - but it was partly to do with cost and a lot to do with the factor that it was seen as easier to get a C (and as it turned out very easy to get an A!) and I piped up on the type of thread I would normally avoid as I have direct and relevant (and recent) experience of both systems.

And don't get me started on the cheating of chief examiners who happen to be teachers in the top public schools!

clavinova in temrs of the Enlgish GCSE when we did IGCSE, those classes were 'fast tracked' and did GCSE Lit a year early to focus in their language : this was back in the day when Ofsted did not mind this/ encouraged it. Naturally, the lit results were a bit shit. I am very glad , personally, we have dropped this system and - actually- that the government's one good move recently was to take action against the gaming of the system. Outside the private sector , the system could still be gamed : but , of course, private schools are much freer to make decisions in the very best interest of their intake and are less likely to need - or want- to game the system

cake : absolutely with you with the MFL fiasco!

It is also unfair to criticise piggy for something she had neither say nor choice in...

Can't see many schools choosing Hard Times

My son is going to do Hard Times :(

Sorry to use you lot as my own personal Google. Maths teacher has bust his arm, and won't be at parents evening. Returning to a topic that was touched on up-thread, Add Maths - my son isn't in a class that does Add Maths (for context, he's at DC and his maths paper was apparently in line with the year average in percentage terms), and I have no idea what proportion of the year does do Add Maths. Any comments on kids who didn't do Add Maths going forward to A Level? Disaster? Fine, but don't expect an A?

@cakeisalwaystheanswer

I haven't checked the label but DS is at a northern not big name indy and two of his friends have opted for just biology and physics for yr10 starting Sept.

wijjy I loved Hard Times. I gather it's a book that divides opinion. I read it directly after reading The Old Curiosity Shop, and it pretty much rescued Dickens for me after being put right off by Little Nell. (Though Quilp is bloody fantastic.) Sorry, back to the thread...

Anyone want to discuss my DS's A GCSE Italian, of which he doesn't know a word*

It's been happening forever. I got an A in French O level twenty-five years ago. Swopped schools for 6th form and at the first parents' evening the teacher told my parents they must have been mistaken over my grade as I knew so little.

Mrs Steptoe, don't worry about Add Maths. DD was told it was the most pointless exam she would ever take. Her school very much limited it to those (top set) who were likely to get an A despite the distraction of other GCSEs and with very little teaching. I think it was simply used to stretch the top set a bit. Most of the girls who joined her next school with her for sixth form did not have it, and it did not seem to have done them much harm. Indeed DS did double maths at A level without Add Maths. Far better to focus on getting the best grade possible in maths itself.

MrsSteptoe

A couple of posters suggested it would be too much to cover in depth in normal teaching hours, and I believe them. I'd suggested it for dd to read over the summer as it was listed on the spec.
Do the Schools get to choose the texts or are they all set by the board?
Sorry if that's a stupid question.

sorry, that was to wijjy.

I'd get him started on it during the summer, unless they have lots of extra time for English.
Maybe the poster will come back and clarify, it was a teacher iirc.

anotherpersona - it doesn't happen around here. I have 3 dc and have looked at loads of schools including boarding. All of them make you take the dual science awars that is all 3 sciences. I always ask because I worried that one of them would also struggle with chemistry. Its one of my biggest criticisms of modern education because "back when I was young" it was ok to be bad at something, and it was ok to pick only 1 or 2 of the sciences. In fact it was very unusual to do all 3. Now everyone has to be able to do all 3 sciences, and not doing triple science is almost seen as a failure. Sometimes I'm glad I'm old.