Possible impact (or damage?) of only doing Combined Science

[Kutik73]

I hope someone can help me understand the system in science study in this country...

DS is about to start his Year 7 at a school where they offer no Triple Science for GSCE/no Physics for A levels. They say;

'Chemistry, Biology and Physics topics are covered at KS3. At KS 4 all pupils study Combined Science resulting in one IGSCE, or Co-ordinated Science which results in two IGCSEs. Both courses are run by the Cambridge board and include units of Biology, Chemistry and Physics. There are three Science exams that need to be completed after the two years of IGCSE. At KS5 Biology and Chemistry A level course are offered. We follow the OCR Biology specification and the Edexcel Chemistry specification.'

I was told that allowing DS to study only Combined Science means throwing away his science option for A level. This may not be a problem if your strength lies in other subjects but DS is bright and very much a Maths/Science child and a Triple Science material. As DS loves the school and wants to go there so much he says he doesn't mind about it. But obviously he is still too young to know if it's a right path for him. He may find Physics fascinating...

DS has an option to leave the school after GCSE but having done only Combined Science, how hard it will be for him to consider Physics for A Level? Or, even before then, how hard for him to get a place at a decent sixth form college to study Physics?

Another question is, is it possible for him to prepare for Triple Science outside of school, such as using online resources or private tuition?

Any advice, experience, knowledge would be greatly appreciated.

He can still do science A-levels.

Sixth forms can't discriminate against pupils coming from schools where only combined science was offered.

However, when he starts the science A-level course, he might find that most students in the class did triple science, and have covered more topics.

If he wants to do science A-levels, I would suggest buying or borrowing the textbook(s) for the GCSE triple science subject(s) so he can read up on the rest of the topics that weren't covered in his course.

Thank you, TheThirdOfHerName. When should he start using the text books? Suppose it's when KS3 is finished and KS4 is starting as that's when studying Combined/Triple Science starts?

If he is at a school doing combined science, he will not be able to sit the triple science GCSE exams independently, as they are scheduled at the same time as the combined science ones. So he would be doing the learning (possibly in the summer holidays after Y11) just for the benefit of preparing himself for the A-level course.

If he wants to do Physics A-level, it's also important that he has a good grade at Maths GCSE, as some sixth forms will ask for this.

I've looked up the entry requirements for Physics A-level at the sixth form where DS2 is hoping to go in September. It's a selective, over-subscribed sixth form, and so other sixth forms may have lower grade requirements.

"Either Grade 7 in Physics or grades 7,7 in Combined Science plus a minimum of grade 6 in each of Mathematics and English Language."

From what I read in your post it is similar to our system here, only we call it single award (study 3 sciences, 1 GCSE), double award(3 sciences, 2 GCSE made from 2 best results) and triple (3 sciences, 3 GCSEs)

ONLY Double award & triple give you enough grounding to study Pure sciences at A level

During KS4 he should focus on the combined science topics so he can get the highest grades possible in those exams, then in the summer holidays after the GCSE exams (these are 10-11 weeks long) he can read up on the topics that are only in the triple science course.

Yes, as GummiberryJuice says, he would need to do the 2-GCSE science course, not the 1-GCSE one (which I'm surprised schools are still allowed to offer).

Oh, that's great. DS will be a weekly boarder. I was thinking if I should pack text books when he sets off this September. He can use them during allocated private study time. But it seems we can leave it for now and let him concentrate on the subjects offered at the school for the best possible results. This means he doesn't need to do extra work until he is sure it is important for him, so that's great.

Thank you so much for your great help, TheThirdOfHerName and GummiberryJuice.

It does not preclude him doing Science A Levels in any way.

Our secondary school offers ONLY Double Science (2 GCSEs; in Core and Additional Science), and many kids go on to do Science subjects at A Level and university. Their reasoning is that doing this allows them to offers everyone a balanced curriculum, without having to do 10 or 11 GCSEs to cover everything.

But as others have said, it sounds like he should go for the Double GCSE option over the Single Science option if he thinks he's leaning towards Science in the future.

Why are they saying NOW he can only do Combined (ONE GCSE - I think posters are confusing what you're calling Combined with what the standard state school Combined which gives 2 GCSEs and is fine to do A Level with). One iGCSE in Combined Science will absolutely NOT enable him to do Science A Levels. He needs to do what they call Co-ordinated Science at the very least, and be prepared to self study the topics he'd miss out on by them not offering triple.

It doesn't sound like Science is well taught or valued (no Physics A Level no triple. Why on earth have you chosen this school?

I did double award science at gcse (so 3 sciences but across 2 gsces) and went on to do physics and biology a levels, then a science based degree. We still studied all 3 sciences separately, just had mixed exams. I don't feel it made things any more difficult for me at university than for the students who took 3 separate GCSEs.

He needs to do what they call Co-ordinated Science at the very least, and be prepared to self study the topics he'd miss out on by them not offering triple.

So this is what TheThirdOfHerName suggested? Let him take Co-ordinated Science which results in two IGCSEs, then go through Triple Science topics over summer... Isn't it sufficient enough to study Science A Level...? Do you think he will suffer finding a place at decent sixth form even if he manages high grade in the subjects offered at the school?

My son did combined science at GCSE. It was the only option at his comp in the 90s.
He read Natural Sciences at Cambridge.

It's a specialist school so their focus is not academic and half of the pupils are from abroad, hence I guess 1-GCSE is still available for those joining from other countries and also to provide more freedom to those who set their heart hard on the specialised area.

Having said that they have some brilliantly academic children there and often they take GCSE earlier. Unlike other specialist schools, academic studies are appropriately valued. No pupil miss classroom lessons for their specialist studies (they are scheduled carefully so that they don't clash).

DS is a bright boy who is particularly excel at Maths. It's a big decision for us and to be honest I do feel it's a bit too early to specialise especially for DS who is very much all-rounder. So I need to make sure doors are still wide open for him in case of any change of circumstances...

I hope someone can help me understand the system in science study in this country...

OP the trouble is that what this school (presumeably independent as state schools don't offer iGCSEs) isn't typical of other state schools in England and most independent schools would offer 3 separate Sciences at GCSE. The other issue is that the GCSE Science curriculum has changed in the past year to a new system - iGCSEs are being reformed too but are approx 1 year behind.
For ordinary GCSE it is no longer possible to take a 1 GCSE option, the minimum is now the 2 GCSE one. So your ds needs to take the 2 iGCSE option to be considered for A level Sciences. The single GCSE was really an option aimed at lower ability pupils.
The good news is that the gap between the 2 subject equivalent GCSE and A levels is smaller than it used to be as all the main topics are covered to some extent. It's just that there are a few extra bits for each topic for Triple. Provided that your ds moves to a sixth form where lots of other A level students haven't taken the Triple science, it shouldn't be a problem.
I agree with titchy about the missing Physics A level - why don't they offer this. Is this because they don't have a teacher with a Physics degree? What Physics qualifications do their Science teachers have - are there any with Physics A level or are they all Chemistry/Biology graduates who haven't studied Physics since GCSE (or equivalent)?

Whilst double science is 'enough' to get into a Science A-level, I would worry more about the quality of the science provision at the school and be very worried if I had a science focused DC.

With no Physics A-level or top science sets doing the harder topics in Triple GCSE and some children only doing one science GCSE, the school might just have PE teachers teaching the subject. Such lack of priority in Science would scare me that DC wouldn't be able to achieve high levels in even the double option.

Maths teachers' qualification - MA (Oxon) & BSc (Hons) PGCE
Biology & Chemistry teachers' - BSc (Hons) PGCE

This can be shown they are qualified teachers? I know qualification won't tell the quality of teaching but can be rough guideline...?

.....you also mentioned taking GCSEs early. Lots of the top Unis are only interested in the exams that taken in one year because it indicates that you are capable of working under pressure with a high work load.

Several years ago DDs school (a selective Inde) did maths, English and their MFL in year 10. But they have completely stopped it now even for the genius DC - RG and Oxbridge Unis indicated (possibly off the record) they would consider the 9 or 10 that other DC did in year 11 far more favourably than 3 in year 10 and 7 in year 11.

So give that a bit of consideration if you are aiming for one of the top Unis later

That ONLY shows they have degrees and a teaching qualification. You need to know what subject their degree is in. Could be Business Studies for all you know!

Agree with titchy s this is a fee paying school then it is reasonable to ask for the degree subject.
It is possible to teach Maths and Science after short conversion courses with appropriate A levels and what I am concerned about is that the reason for not offering Triple science GCSE or Physics A level is down to the teachers not having sufficient subject knowledge to teach rather than pupils ability.
In my teaching experience, the fact that many pupils come from abroad doesn't really affect performance in Science and Maths as much as English.
The BSc degrees may be in Biochemistry or Biology or Chemistry which would be OK. But you can also obtain BScs in Pyschology, Geography, Geology, Environmental science, forensic Science or even sports science.

I'm a lab manager in a university- I only did double science, not done me any harm!

Thanks all for taking time to leave comments - positive and not-so-positive. I need to see both sides so every comment is very much helpful to understand the pros and cons.

Right, I've got some more information about the teachers. A Maths teacher has a degree in Maths & Physics and the other a degree in Natural Sciences with a PGCE in Secondary Maths. A Science teacher has a degree in Biology and the other a degree in Nutrition. For other subjects such as English, History, Languages seem to have teachers who have a degree in the teaching subject.

Any thoughts...?

Doesn't sound like there is anyone teaching physics with an actual physics degree, does it?

I assume you have other very pressing reasons for choosing this school OP, ie its specialism, fair enough. The physics thibg would concentrate me tho.

That said, there are plenty of secondary schools out there without (sadly) physics graduates teaching physics :(

Concern me not concentrate me, stupid phone!!