Possible impact (or damage?) of only doing Combined Science

[Kutik73]

I hope someone can help me understand the system in science study in this country...

DS is about to start his Year 7 at a school where they offer no Triple Science for GSCE/no Physics for A levels. They say;

'Chemistry, Biology and Physics topics are covered at KS3. At KS 4 all pupils study Combined Science resulting in one IGSCE, or Co-ordinated Science which results in two IGCSEs. Both courses are run by the Cambridge board and include units of Biology, Chemistry and Physics. There are three Science exams that need to be completed after the two years of IGCSE. At KS5 Biology and Chemistry A level course are offered. We follow the OCR Biology specification and the Edexcel Chemistry specification.'

I was told that allowing DS to study only Combined Science means throwing away his science option for A level. This may not be a problem if your strength lies in other subjects but DS is bright and very much a Maths/Science child and a Triple Science material. As DS loves the school and wants to go there so much he says he doesn't mind about it. But obviously he is still too young to know if it's a right path for him. He may find Physics fascinating...

DS has an option to leave the school after GCSE but having done only Combined Science, how hard it will be for him to consider Physics for A Level? Or, even before then, how hard for him to get a place at a decent sixth form college to study Physics?

Another question is, is it possible for him to prepare for Triple Science outside of school, such as using online resources or private tuition?

Any advice, experience, knowledge would be greatly appreciated.

A joint honours degree in Maths and Physics is perfectly OK so don't know why that's the one that confuses you.
Am a bit about Nutrition to be honest. So they don't really have either a qualified teacher with a degree in Chemistry.
Not that impressed to be honest - many state schools have better qualified teachers so what are you paying for at this school in terms of extra expertise?
With such a small number of teachers what would happen if one left and it may not be the one you would prefer?

CORRECTION: So they don't really have a qualified teacher with a degree in Chemistry and the one with the degree in Physics doesn't teach that subject!

I expect they don't offer physics at a level as noone wants to take it. I wouldn't be happy with that if I had a scicencey child

Hi Kutik,
I'm assuming minikutik has got a place at one of the specialist music schools? ( I haven't been over to the other board in quite a while, so may have missed this news - congratulations to him!!). If so, I would guess that producing science buffs is not their main agenda, nor their pupils'.
Unfortunately, there is a degree of specialising early by going to such a school, so if you think your DC may want to follow an academic route later on, perhaps it's not the right school at this point in his life?

My DD is at an indie that puts great emphasis on STEM subjects, but they have tried to encourage all students to opt for the combined science GCSE course - they say it will not prevent anyone from going into to study sciences at A level, and they will teach the triple science course in only the same number of lessons as the combined, so only the most able students should opt for triple. This seems to change almost yearly, from what I can tell ( partly dependent on parents' requests), so who knows what the situation may be for your DC when he gets to options in year 9?

I was confused as they actually have one who has a degree in Physics but somehow don't teach the subject...

Interestingly they seem to do well for A levels. But I need to dust my memory...

Hi Floot. Thanks for your kind word. Yes he's got an offer from his dream school, all rather a surprise as it happened almost out of plan. Need to digest the idea him going there. Still in the process....

That's just wonderful! Huge congratulations to him! I know you had said he had set his heart on the idea, so he must be over the moon to see his dream come true. If it's the school I think it is, I believe it ranks very well in the exam league tables for that size of school, doesn't it?
My friend's daughter went for 6th form, leaving a couple of years ago. No idea what the academic side was like, as she is now on the performers course at one of the London colleges - she's a brilliant violinist, was leader of NYO etc. I wonder how many pupils stay for 6th form that don't plan a career in music?

Congratulations to him Kutik
I remember you from the monthly music threads.

Thanks Floot & TheThirdOfHerName.

I wish it is the school you think it is Floot as I like the ranking very well in the exam league bit. Would you be able to give me the initial?? I'll tell you if it is the one!

I have a feeling it may not be what you think as DS's music school don't really encourage their pupils to do NYO (at least they said so at a meeting last week)...

Possibly worth asking about the specialism of the person who has a Natural sciences degree.

The largest natural sciences degree is from Cambridge, and the final year (specialism) could be Physics or Plant Sciences, or History & philosophy of science....or many more.....

On the 'double' (combined) vs triple (separate) sciences issue,, the last time i looked into this in detail (a couple of years ago), those from double science only schools did as well in their own sixth form as those from triple science offering schools in their own sixth form, but there was a slight disadvantage for those who had transferred from double-only GCSE schools to triple-offering schools for A-level. However, my own old Oxbridge college said they had an equal number of science undergraduates who had originally done double and triple at GCSE, so doing double definitely doesn't preclude studying science at a high level in the future.

Sorry, should really read the OP in detail.

Pretty much at all costs, if he is interested in Science, he should avoid Combined (1 GCSE equivalent). This is no longer available in 'standard' GCSEs, and therefore won't be taught or offered in state schools. Therefore, if he transfers to a state school, or even a non-specialist independent, at 16, it would prevent him from joining Science A-level courses.

If he does co-ordinated science, the one offering 2 GCSE equivalents, then he is much more likely to be able to do Science A-levels, and so you should push for that.

However, you should probably bear in mind that 'ordinary' GCSEs have been very thoroughly revised over the last few years for the new 9-1 grading, with science (among many other subjects) now having MUCH more content.

iGCSEs have NOT been revised as yet, which means that they currently have less content than normal GCSEs. Therefore, although 'double Science' (ie 2 normal GCSE equivalents) does not leave an insurmountable gap tob the new A-level specs, 'Co-ordinated science' iGCSE, if still available and unrevised when he reaches that age, is likely to leave a very much larger gap.

Oooh, in that case, I'm not sure which school it is, Kutik!
I thought it might be the P School...

Ahhh, Floot! I'll PM you!

cantkeepaway, thank you so much for the detailed information. Perhaps we have to accept no Science for DS if he chooses to go to this school. I feel it's not right. Then I heard him playing earlier today, and thought, I must let him got to his dream school... Parents should make such important decision but it's so hard when my own head and heart are disagreeing to each other...

Have you considered applying to other specialist schools, that might have more A-levels available?

But I suspect people are right and that children who stay to 6th form at a specialist school are pretty set on the specialism, and that he could move for 6th form if he wasn't sure.

Even moving for Year 10 is possible, if he was still strongly considering physics etc as an option and wanted to do triple science. He'd still have had 3 years of specialist training, and he could go back to a private (or even state) school at that stage and be fine, if he's reasonably bright. Or moving in Year 9, to a standard independent school that has a year 9 entry, and he'd not even be the new boy.

or at any point during the time there, he could consider switching to a different specialist school, with more academic options.

I suspect you'll know when/if he's not loving it any more, or is not happy socially, and he'll be on board for a move then if needed, which makes moving schools much easier. Right now, if this is what he wants, then he has at least a couple of year to give it a go without it closing off any options.

Could be Business Studies for all you know

My degree is Business but given I also have a HND in electronic engineering has meant I've taught in the DT department very successfully

Is it actually a published policy of the school not to teach to the 'separate sciences' IGCSE, or to offer only Biology and Chemistry, not Physics, at A level? Or is it just the current policy, driven by the lack of suitable / willing teaching staff. If current science teachers left, would the school deliberately not attempt to replace them with a more 'balanced' crew?

The year that DS1 was looking at sixth forms, one of our local comprehensives made the painful decision not to offer any of the pure sciences at A level, due to lack of demand, but it was just for that year.

I found PickleNeedsAFriendInReading's post very comforting, thanks... DH really likes the school DS got a generous scholarship offer for their 11+ entry (but we turned down). They have 13+ entry, so that will be strong possibility if we feel DS should move back to mainstream school. He's got to keep up with his academic work though if he wants to keep the door open.

cricket

marching, I am not quite sure why they don't offer Physics. It's quite surprising since musicians are often good at Maths and Physics. But it doesn't seem like it's due to the lack of teaching staff. It seems rather the choice the school made for some reasons... I know two pupils are leaving after GCSEs for Physics A Level.

As someone said earlier, those who stay to 6th form are pretty set on the specialism. If it happens to be DS's choice, we are fine for him to stay at the school and let him pursue his dream there. We just need to make sure sufficient support will be there at least until GCSEs.

Your lad must be a talented boy to get a place at a specialist music college.
I would make sure he does double/combined hwatever the new iGCSE name is for it. That will be more than sufficient preparation for A level if then choses to move away from music and do sciences at A level elsewhere.
I say that based on years of teaching A level sciences, we offer both triple and combined in my school, but take many from a school that only offers combined. The interested, keen and motivated have no isssues.
The school 3 of my dc have been to only offers double/combined. It hasn’t stopped my older dc doing engineering and medicine (at RG), and they get plenty of kids to Imperial, medicine, dentistry every year.
So I guess I would concentrate on the now, let him go to music school, love life, do double science and reevaluate in y10 as to what for sixth form.

let him go to music school, love life, do double science and reevaluate in y10 as to what for sixth form
Yes, that's a plan for us. Thanks for your reassurance, Rosieposy4. I was hoping from the very beginning this way would work but probably wanted to see more 'green lights' from those in the knows...

The lack of Physics A-level may well be due to lack of demand. It is the least popular science A-level, and it sounds like the school can only employ 2 full time science teachers (I may have misunderstood?). As they are a small school with a specialist focus that is not the sciences, it does sort of make sense that they would go for specialists in the other sciences which are more popular.

It isn't uncommon at normal sized schools both private and state to have 30-40 pupils wanting to study biology in Y12 (obviously split between 2 or more classes) and

you need to just keep an eye on what is happening in the science - iGCSE isn't accepted on all A level course, because it can be completed without every entering a science lab.

It isn't going to affect him in year 7, 8 or 9 though - so you can always rethink a few years down the line, if the school offer hasn't changed

LadyLance, didn't know Physics is unpopular. That makes sense that they don't offer Physics A Level especially at sixth form pretty much everyone is set their heart on music.

Clairetree1, yes I think that'll be our plan. DS's favourite science is chemistry so the lack of Physics may not be a problem after all. But he's done only primary school science so he doesn't know how fascinating Physics ca be yet. Knowing how mathematical he is, I just assume it may become his favourite subject in science. But it may not happen. Hopefully we'll know in a couple of years time and can switch school if needed.

As my only child is still year 6, and I wasn't brought up in this country, I can't really understand the system of higher education clearly yet. Are iGCSE disadvantage over GCSE when applying for academically selective sixth form?

The specialist school DS is going has quite good results but not as good as some top independent schools understandably. Unless DS wants to study the subjects that are not offered at the school, the reason why we may move him in future would be because we like him to go to more academic focused school. But if iGCSEs are not sufficient to secure a place at such school then we have to be aware of the disadvantage...

Kutik iGCSE shouldn't be a problem as lots of the private schools do them. They are also being reformed in line with GCSE. You should probably wait and check again in a couple of years though when the dust has settled a bit!
I would imagine that for Years 7 and 8 the school will be covering the usual science topics and in smaller classes so he shouldn't be at a disadvantage. If at the end of Y8 he wants to switch back into mainstream state or private provision I doubt he'd be behind much and if he was he'd catch up in any case. It's much harder to switch once you start GCSE work so I would say it's an idea to review your options at the end of Y8 and let him enjoy music for now!
Incidentally, it is possible to combine music and physics at university - Imperial and Royal Holloway both do this so it wouldn't be a totally unusual A level for a musician to take!