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Secondary education

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Original poster

Advice please on how to handle 11+ cattiness amongst Y5s

54 replies

NofGreenGables · 04/05/2018 00:13

I have a Y5 daughter who is at the top of her class, along with one or two others. She will be sitting 11+ exams head to head with one classmate for a very competitive school. The problem is that this child (with whose mother I am friendly) has been apparently got started on the mind games of the following ilk:
"I've been doing past papers every night for the last year" (when the school does not release past papers of any sort)
OR, more recently, broadcasting my daughters' school shortlist to other class-members (in my daughter's opnion to set her up for any prospective falls / "failures" to get in).

I've explained that she should not get drawn in, and that this behaviour must come from a place of insecurity but I am a little irked by the manipulative and unsportsmanlike nature of this behaviour. Do you think I should speak to the mother about asking her child to be more sensitive and aware of others' privacy or do you think it will make things worse? I am just protective of my daughter who is already anxious and though bright, suffering from performance anxiety.

OP posts:
MillicentF · 04/05/2018 13:32

“Handling the 11+ in the same balanced way is good prep for your children in future! grin”

Yep. Nothing quite like chucking 10 year olds into a hideous, competitive, devil take the hindmost bear pit to prepare them for non competitive public exams at 16 and 18........

Flicketyflack · 04/05/2018 13:36

All exams are competitive, sports are competitive Hmm

It is how it is managed that causes stress, anxiety etc

MillicentF · 04/05/2018 13:47

Since when have GCSEs and A levels been competitive?

MillicentF · 04/05/2018 13:47

And sport is voluntary.

Flicketyflack · 04/05/2018 14:03
Hmm
User19992018 · 04/05/2018 14:11

This reply has been withdrawn

The OP has privacy concerns and so we've agreed to take this down.

User19992018 · 04/05/2018 14:11

This reply has been withdrawn

The OP has privacy concerns and so we've agreed to take this down.

Miserablemouse · 04/05/2018 14:27

I think you have the right idea telling your DD to rise above it and focus on her own work but I would caution against getting the teacher or mother involved. I passed the 11+ in a year where I was the one of only 2 girls who did (grammar school area so everyone took it, not just a select few) and there was one mum at school who made my life hell because of it. Her daughter was never going to pass it, didn't want to and was happy with the school she was planning to go to as it had an excellent art reputation and that's what she wanted to do. Mum took it upon herself to confront my mum (and me, age 10, on occasion) in the playground/other friends' houses/at Brownies) about it, how much work I'd done, would I be "heartbroken" if I didn't pass etc.
On the day we got our results my Mum said not to call friends to discuss them, we could just share our news/school places at school the next day. This other mother called my Mum and told her I was the only person in the whole school who had passed (apparently the head teacher had told her so Hmm) and made a number of snidey comments about how happy she was that her daughter and all her friends (all my friends too) were going to the same school and how sad I must be.
It was awful and it really did upset me. This woman could be a cow and there were numerous other awful things she did (separate thread!) that have stayed with me for years. I'm not saying in any way that you are like her, but my Mum eventually did ask the school to intervene but it only made things worse. I was very happy at school generally and this was a blemish on my last two years there. If you can teach your DD some resilience and to rise above the other girls comments (almost certain that they will be borne of nerves and worries rather than nastiness but obviously I don't know the child) without involving the teacher/mother then I think that might be a better option in the long run?

Best of luck - I hope your DD gets into whichever school she wishes and that things resolve easily with the other girl.

Original poster
NofGreenGables · 04/05/2018 14:27

Love it @User19992018 I clearly need you to mentor me more in life! I am only half joking! Grin

@Flicketyflack I could not agree more. Also I think it is natural that kids use each other as yardsticks - rightly or wrongly. I know I will figure something out, regardless of outcome, I just know that in the real world there are tests because how else are you supposed to allocate limited resources? It's not necessarily fair, but it is arguably one of the less unfair ways of many unfair ways to take a proportion of the whole.

OP posts:
Miserablemouse · 04/05/2018 14:31

To clarify - Greengables I don't think you are like the awful woman in my example - more like my Mum trying to handle it and keep me sane but in the end it actually made things worse.

goodbyestranger · 04/05/2018 14:39

I've lived in an area with a superselective on our doorstep for forty odd years with eight DC sitting the 11+ test and haven't encountered any nastiness at all. I'm genuinely surprised that people on this thread think it's a matter of course, it certainly doesn't seem to be in our area.

goodbyestranger · 04/05/2018 14:42

OP if I had come across this sort of stuff I know that my approach would have been to laugh it off and tell my DC to ignore. I'd also assume that the kid's parent was making a huge deal out of the 11+ and that that intensity was percolating down.

Original poster
NofGreenGables · 04/05/2018 14:42

@Miserablemouse that sounds like at best a bad joke and worst an outright nightmare. I had a similar thing occur when I got into Oxbridge after not prepping for the interview and as the only one who got in, I was turned upon by some very chippy people. I am also scarred by that and it massively knocked my confidence when I landed in college all green and homesick. Thankfully this nowhere near that bad. If anything we are being quite slack on the practice paper front and so a tutor is simply a way for me to avoid arguing with my child to sit down and do some now and then, while batting away the other siblings. We have a bigger, noisier household. I must remember to update this thread once all is done and dusted!

OP posts:
MillicentF · 04/05/2018 14:44

Yep, goodbyestranger- I've read your posts about your particular grammar school before. I can categorically say that it is in no way typical. You also need to remember that all your children passed-and I suspect that there was never any question about them passing. So you were, so to speak, "above the fray"

goodbyestranger · 04/05/2018 14:56

Believe me Millicent I wouldn't have been above any fray. We live in a community where everyone knows everyone and I think I'm alert enough to have detected snipping had there been any. I'm not at all clear what you mean about the school 'not being typical'. It's a super selective in a rural area so some children do travel a good way to attend, but most local kids apply, or at least many, because it's so close apart from anything else. Anyhow, I think I'm probably in a good place to detect nastiness, had there been any. I find MN vastly more competitive and unpleasant than real life, at least on the education threads!

OP I definitely wouldn't engage, I really don't think it will end well for your DD.

goodbyestranger · 04/05/2018 14:58

Also, I certainly wasn't convinced that mine would pass until I got to about number 7 when I had a bit more of a handle on the standard required.

BubblesBuddy · 04/05/2018 16:00

I live in a county with grammar schools and everyone is able to take the 11 plus if they wish. Therefore it’s not super selective but nonetheless parents become utterly screwed up about it.

What I noticed more than anything else was a self satisfied smugness about some parents who believed their children were nailed on for a grammar school place. A sort of superior parent. We didn’t engage with any of that and, as everyone could take the exam, there was no nastiness beteeen the children at all. Competitiveness was completely down to the parents who clearly became friends with other parents who believed they had a right to a grammar school place for their children. I have no doubt they shared tutors but they played their cards close so anyone outside the clique would never have got the phone number of the tutor. You had to belong to their self appointed club!

I would widen your friendship circle OP and disengage from the topic. Your DD might do well to do the same if she can.

Original poster
NofGreenGables · 04/05/2018 18:47

@Bubblesbuddy some are most definitely smug, or just so confident! And frequently confident without foundation. I don't rate our chances but don't want to be intimidated out of trying. It's three intimidation trick that this girl has been trying on... but I agree, must do my utmost to disengage from that - me at parental and my daughter at child level!

OP posts:
DioneTheDiabolist · 05/05/2018 00:16

OP, my advice is to encourage your DD to ignore others and do the best she can on the day.Smile I also advise you to step back.

It sounds as though both you and this other child's mother are seeing this as a competition and that's why your DDs see it as one. Maybe if the adults in this situation stop the competitiveness, conspiracy theories and cattiness the children will too.

lljkk · 05/05/2018 10:31

Whole thread reads like an advertisement against 11+ system.

MillicentF · 05/05/2018 10:54

"Whole thread reads like an advertisement against 11+ system."

Good!

goodbyestranger · 05/05/2018 12:19

lljkk not quite. I'm quite mellow about the 11+ and my posts reflected that.

Millicent you haven't explained what you mean by our school not being typical - in what way, exactly? Aside from being a super selective I mean, and I'm not sure that that fact dilutes competition or competitiveness among parents, rather the opposite.

Frogletmamma · 05/05/2018 12:47

Didn't really discuss 11+ with anyone except a couple of friends. When we went to state grammar/private for exams we met other people that we didn't know were sitting it. Avoided comparisons.

DioneTheDiabolist · 05/05/2018 13:10

No, it reads like a sitcom full of Hyacinth Bucket types.GrinGrinGrin Seriously, the parents here need to catch themselves on.

DioneTheDiabolist · 05/05/2018 13:14

No, it reads like a sitcom full of Hyacinth Bucket types.GrinGrinGrin Seriously, the parents here need to catch themselves on.