Michael Gove - wrong again: Performance-related pay in schools is crap

[noblegiraffe]

In new research that will surprise no teacher ever, performance-related pay has been shown to be ineffective in schools. It doesn’t raise school standards and it doesn’t improve staff retention.

We tried to tell Gove but would he listen? Can we get rid of it now?

www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-news/performance-related-pay-ineffective-schools-study-finds

I rarely mean what I type but I didn't even notice that one

My understanding from reading some of the research is that performance-related pay doesn't work generally. It's divisive, unfair and focuses on extrinsic rather than intrinsic rewards. Better to reward high performers in other ways (e.g. promotion or giving them work that fits their interests/development needs).

”I can't say it ever once occurred to me to compare my pay with another teacher's on the basis of their performance, effort or achievement, Flowery.”

That interests me. For most people, salary isn’t a motivator- people are generally more motivated by other things. But it is a demotivator, if it’s perceived as unfair.

I’m not motivated by money- if I were I would not have spent most of my employed career in the voluntary sector even though I could have got more money for an equivalent job in the public sector or some industries in the private sector. I didn’t need big pay rises or bonuses, but I always went the extra mile and was very good at my job, and I would have been demotivated if, come pay review time, I got the same percentage increase as a poor performer. Interesting that the teachers on here wouldn’t feel demotivated in those circumstances.

Teachers spend most of their time with their classes, not with other teachers, and it is generally the performance of the kids that they care about.

How would I know if another teacher in my school is a poor performer? What does that even mean? I know that some aren’t popular with the kids, but that’s not the same thing at all. And how would I know what point of the pay scale they are on?

Do other people regularly have conversations about pay?

I know you are the HR guru of MN flowery and you were once very helpful to me : so I am, therefore , surprised that you don't understand how teachers think about pay : their own and that of others.

But, to reiterate, even if I were motivated by PRP (and I am clearly not ) there are too many complicating factors in teaching to create any sensible performance measures. What about home tuition as a factor? Classes perform better of a large number of students have supportive -or even pushy- home environments. Nearly every class I teach is shared. So what happens there? And what about inheriting a class from someone else? Whose results are they?

There is a published payscale (which nearly all schools use even academies) and I think teachers have always accepted that we all move on up it to recognise length of service in the profession : when UPS was introduced that gave longer servers a chance to progress beyond the masses and there are now also other opportunities either existing or in the offing outside of normal responsibility based promotion, such as SLEs.

I do think it is all too fraught and subjective.

Out of interest, what public sector jobs do have PRP? Showing my ignorance here , but do doctors? Nurses? social workers? Police? I know that NHS trusts have performance measured and police forces etc but do the individuals?Surely again those would be disincentives to move into complex , troubled or difficult cases.

”How would I know if another teacher in my school is a poor performer? What does that even mean?”

Do you really not have a sense of which of your colleagues are probably really good at their job and which are less so? I don’t think I’d have to have much conversation with an HR professional to be able to form a reasonably accurate impression of their probable competence, although if I’d just met them it wouldn’t be evidence-based.

”And how would I know what point of the pay scale they are on?”

Well I suppose if you never discuss it you wouldn’t know, no!

I suppose if there’s a culture of pay having nothing to do with competence it seems jarring for that to suddenly be a factor, and vice verse as well!

Obviously the current system is flawed in many ways, I just find it interesting to hear the suggested alternatives of those who are paid within that system.

On your first point, yes and no. I have worked with teachers who are very keen to let others know they are amazing! Sometimes they are; sometimes they aren't. is it Shakespeare who said : 'that bubble reputation'?

Do you really not have a sense of which of your colleagues are probably really good at their job and which are less so?

Not from talking to them, no. Teaching is a performance, could you tell from talking to an actor how good they are on stage?

”I am...surprised that you don't understand how teachers think about pay : their own and that of others.”

I’ve never been a teacher, and I’m very sure all teachers don’t think the same anyway.

My impressions of how teachers think about pay come from two sources- my parents, who were teachers in the 1980s- and from my role as a director of a primary MAT including chairing the pay review committee.

The latter hasn’t given me the impression that most of the teachers our MAT employs have a problem with the concept of PRP. We have excellent teachers who have progressed more quickly than one point a year and others who have progressed more slowly. Having done this for a few years now I can’t remember any appeals against pay decisions. So I don’t think we’re doing too badly in terms of fairness.

But clearly those on here do have a conceptual problem and due to my role in a MAT I am keen to hear how teachers think it should be solved.

”Not from talking to them, no. Teaching is a performance, could you tell from talking to an actor how good they are on stage?”

No, but I’m not an actor. I’m genuinely surprised you have no inkling from experience which of your colleagues might be particularly good at their jobs, but if you literally have no idea, then fair enough I guess!

I can’t remember any appeals against pay decisions.

People not appealing against pay decisions doesn’t mean that they think that the decision is reasonable, simply that it is not worth pursuing.

Interested to know how you decide who is an excellent teacher.

have no inkling from experience which of your colleagues might be particularly good at their jobs

Based on what? I haven’t actually seen most of them teach?

flowery my solution would be not to have it. Seems to work at my school. One less thing for us all to be unhappy about. Whenever anyone is having a moan about how bad things have become at our school , I say ' could be worse , you know. Other schools have PRP' and they look shocked!

It would genuinely put me off applying to a MAT or school : perhaps something for your MAT to know!

flowery those teachers who progress 2 points a year... they get to the top of the scale more quickly , right? So reach that point of stagnation more rapidly? What next for them?

”People not appealing against pay decisions doesn’t mean that they think that the decision is reasonable, simply that it is not worth pursuing.”

No that’s very true. I suppose I’d just say that if we were consistently getting it wrong I’d expect to see at least the occasional appeal.

”Interested to know how you decide who is an excellent teacher.”

I don’t, is the short answer! I chair the committee but that doesn’t mean I make the decisions. Our EHT and Heads of Schools make recommendations based on their own knowledge and experience, and by and large, those are approved. If someone wants to go on to the upper scale they have to submit an application which the committee read but as well as their form we also rely heavily on the opinions of the EHT/HoS in terms of whether the person applying meets the criteria set out in our pay policy or not.

”flowery those teachers who progress 2 points a year... they get to the top of the scale more quickly , right? So reach that point of stagnation more rapidly? What next for them?”

They tend to be the ones most likely to take on additional responsibility. Same as in any industry really- high performers are more likely to be given more responsibility and/or promotion.

I’ve known teachers to look for other jobs after stupid pay decisions rather than appeal. Nothing like not feeling valued. And the rest of the staff pass the story around, reducing morale and increasing fear of performance management.

I wonder how many part time teachers go up two points on the scale?

But one of the things recently in teaching is to try to keep high performers in the classroom , rather than forcing them to take on responsibilities which then reduce their teaching efficiency sometimes and certainly reduce their classroom contact. Some teachers don't want responsibility roles but are fantastically effective classroom teachers.

”It would genuinely put me off applying to a MAT or school : perhaps something for your MAT to know!”

But as PRP is in STPCD I’m not sure avoiding MATs is the answer if you want to work in a school which bases pay purely on time served!

I must say I do hate the word 'performers' applied to teaching , though (Other than when acknowledging us as performers on a stage )
It makes us sound like sales people or something out of Wolf of Wall Street.

Bugger all.

I was told I couldn't apply for a second in department role as I was 0.8.

Please bear in mind less then two years before that (pre child) SLT were asking me to apply for the HOD vacancy.

Needless to say their attitude towards me as a part timer meant I left. And left teaching too.

PRP is in STPCD as something that can be applied, isn't it, rather than has to be?

I do believe when it was first introduced, unions advised against it, and still don't support it. We followed union guidelines at my place and nearly all the local schools also don't apply it.

I have served my time, anyway, so am 'at the top' so it's a moot point , but I would feel uncomfortable with the culture.

”I’ve known teachers to look for other jobs after stupid pay decisions rather than appeal. Nothing like not feeling valued. And the rest of the staff pass the story around, reducing morale and increasing fear of performance management.”

Yes absolutely. If we had a retention problem I’d certainly be looking at whether that was a factor. We do a staff survey annually which isn’t indicating a problem at the moment.

”I wonder how many part time teachers go up two points on the scale?”

In our MAT? I can think of several part timers who I know are thought very highly of, so probably them although I don’t know off the top of my head.

Presumably also there aren't any staff who are bullied by SLT or their line managers in your MAT? This is not as rare as you might think. The easiest way of bullying someone would be to suggest their performance was below par (and to find ways to 'prove ' it). In my school that has led to some nasty situations , but thankfully not ones as awful as having pay withheld. But I do know my union has been involved in huge numbers of cases on this matter.

I only know the system as a pupil some years ago. What PP have said about outside factors was true. I did French and Italian A levels. I had a great French teacher, new to the school. Any good Alevel results PRP would (at least partly) reflect the quality of her teaching.

For Italian I had a teacher who was rubbish at motivating, setting or marking work. They were Head of languages.
I got an Italian tutor, who had done oral examining at my school for a number of years, which was lucky as the Italian teacher said they never left any copies of the orals for use future years. I (through tutor) provided copies for the three of us doing Italian. I also shared other things so the three of us learnt together. For that teacher to get PRP in our good results would be incredibly unfair. (I presume an enterprising French teacher kept the oral papers which were always left or that my great teacher went out of her way to get some for us all.)