G'ah GCSE options: triple science vs double + engineering...

[nobutreally]

So: Ds has been very definite on his GCSE options - triple science, with computer science to fill his two 'free choice' options (language and either history of geography compulsory). BUT he also loves the look of engineering and has talked about this as a career path. So, he does in theory have the option to drop down to double science and also take engineering. His science teacher was pretty relaxed about dropping down to double science - and that he could still look at science A level. The engineering teacher said it would be tough to move over to engineering at a level if he hasn't done a DT GCSE. So .... can anyone tell me anymore about double vs triple science (science is his Thing - but mostly physics) or about the engineering GCSE/what is needed for engineering path? I'm a Eng Lit grad so this really is NOT my space!!

My DS left school 18 months ago and is now an Engineering apprentice at Level 3 so he is following an alternative route rather than Alevels and Uni. However, he did double science and that certainly didn't hold him back. I know that your DS can go from double science to ALevel physics for example - they don't have to do triple science in order to progress to ALevel.

If he really wants to do engineering, I would encourage him to do double science and engineering gcse as this will give him a good grounding and insight into the engineering world and whether that is indeed what he wants to do for a career. The computer science gcse will fit really well with engineering career as there are a lot of engineering design opportunities for people with those skills.

Don't forget to explore apprenticeships: my DS is thriving, saving money by the bucket load and gaining fantastic experience and qualifications at college (day release).

Good luck with gcse choices, don't forget to guide your DS rather than tell him what to choose.

Triple science is seen as the demanding option, will be valued by the more prestigious universities, and if you look at what the top-performing private schools and grammars are pushing their kids to do, it’s not engineering.

If your ds wants to do an engineering degree, stick to the sciences at GCSE and A Level. If he is on a vocational route rather than academic, and you feel that he’d benefit from some hands-on work as a precursor to an apprenticeship, then go for the engineering GCSE.

This university page is very good at describing what it calls “facilitating” subjects - those that will help you get onto a course at a Russell Group university

www.trin.cam.ac.uk/undergraduate/applying/a-level-subject-combinations/

Unfortunately, some schools have an anti-elitist agenda and don’t encourage academic children to stick to subjects that will help them later on.

We're just choosing GCSE options so I'm glad to find this thread.

DS wants to do engineering and is thinking of these GCSEs

triple science
engineering
geography
history
maybe a language if he can fit one in.

plus the standard ones.

I would advise triple science if possible. It will keep options open for later and provide excellent foundation for an Engineering degree if later desired. I have never really understood the point of an Engineering subject at GCSE but I'm sure I'll be updated by mumsnetters on the benefits.

Soooo helpful - thank you both!

Ds’ school actually had a talk on apprenticeships today, undies, so it’s certainly not something I think he’d rule out. Sounds like your Ds has got himself brilliantly sorted.

And thanks so much for that link, BeesandChisuits - very nice and clear. I suspect he’s more naturally academic than vocational - he’s in the top third of the top maths set for example (at a classic mumsnet ‘leafy comp’) - and actually one of the things that the engineering teacher talked about that really appealed to him was that most of the engineering students at A level are a geeky bunch, doing it alongside maths & physics (his two favourites!)

I may be completely out of date but I don't think Engineering even existed as a GCSE option in my time - I went on to do an Engineering degree without one, so I doubt it was compulsory. In fact just Maths at A' Level was enough.

I've never heard of GCSE engineering. Do many schools do it? DS is planning on becoming an engineer without it. I think maths & physics are the important subjects, certainly at A level.

More insights: thank you all!

DS’s school has in the past had an unusually strong DT department with some amazing resources, and I think the engineering gcse was a new one for them last year so you’re right - it’s clearly not an established ‘thing’. This is so helpful - thank you all!

Are you sure it's not a b-tec engineering course

Interesting that your Ds is considering engineering too, turnip. Ds is very set on computer science which I know also has a good reputation as solidly academic so that’s one decided on! It didn’t help his/our decisiveness that the engineering teacher was really nice, very on ds’ wavelength And is also the school ucas guy so came across convincingly on the uni side. But I’m also remembering that this is the first year that a DT option hasn’t been compulsory at ds’ school - so those teachers must be on a massive student recruitment drive!!

Lol, pretty sure it’s a gcse. Clueless in engineering terms but not quite that clueless in general!! This one I think: www.aqa.org.uk/subjects/engineering/gcse/engineering-8852

Triple science for sure, especially as it us his thing. Engineering GCSE definitely not needed for engineering degrees, DS applied for engineering this year.

Yes, it's GCSE Engineering because my eldest did it as well.
DS is keen because it's a combination of practical and theoretical and his school take part in the Arkwright scheme.

For the engineering he's thinking about he needs maths and physics, I think that's fairly standard.

DS1 has just started engineering at university. He did triple science and maths, and DT and a language at GCSE, then maths, physics and DT at A level. For every engineering degree he looked at you needed maths and physics at A level, with more choice for the 3rd subject.

8852 has a firm base in maths and science.
It is more robust than the previous course and links more firmly within engineering as a subject.

Very few schools have taken it up as it is a PITA to teach and requires a good engineering knowledge as well as a reasonably well equipped workshop or a decent work around.

Around here engineering is seen as a bonus when going to college and apprenticeships due to the CAD/CAM aspect in the teaching and a broad systems and control section.

You can do engineering without it but that could be said of a lot of subjects and named jobs.

but then there will always be those that want to detract from the subject.

There is a very useful leaflet produced by the Russell Group universities which goes into detail about useful A Level combinations for certain subjects, and has some detail on GCSEs.

russellgroup.ac.uk/media/5686/informed-choices-2018-1-6th-edition-final.pdf

For engineering:

Engineering (General)
ESSENTIAL ADVANCED LEVEL QUALIFICATIONS
Mathematics and Physics.
USEFUL ADVANCED LEVEL QUALIFICATIONS
Further Mathematics, Design Technology, Computing/ Computer Science.

Note that this doesn’t include the Engineering A Level!

Gosh, reading this thread with some shock at the university snobbery expressed so far. Not every bright child wants to study study at uni. Apprenticeships suit many, particularly those bright students who prefer more practical choices, I think the engineering GCSE sounds brilliant. Much better than the waffly arts subjects offered by my dc's dyslexic school. What board is offering that?

It's AQA who do engineering.

I think it's a useful background at GCSE where they study many subjects but I wouldn't suggest it for A level where there are limited choices.

Really interesting Boneyback - that ties in with the school/DT department, and what ds’ teacher was saying. It does sound like a really nice mix of practical and academic!

Triple science is seen as the demanding option, will be valued by the more prestigious universities,

Pretty much no-one doing admissions cares directly about your GCSE subjects. Where it matters is the effect it has on your A Level choices and grades, and in STEM doing triple science appears to be linked to doing better at A Level science.

A Level "Engineering" is not required or even desired for anything, and anyone who thinks that A Level engineering is a better preparation for a STEM degree than, say, Maths, Further maths and Physics (which for most engineering subjects is the perfect combination) is deluded.

I get depressed at the number of prospective applicants I see who have done "sounds like a good idea" A Levels, at the expense of Maths, Physics, and one of Further Maths, Chemistry or Computer Science. An applicants with combinations like that can apply for essentially any STEM degree.

Many apprentice schemes also lead to a degree. If he is academic, he should stick to academic GCSE. Hopefully a school with a strong DT ethos has after-schools clubs he could join.

My dh recruits a myriad of engineers, including apprentices, interns, graduates and those with post grad qualifications.

The one thing he's looking for is desire/passion for engineering. He's much more interested in whether a candidate takes things apart /builds / shown an interest in mechanics / used CAD for shits and giggles than whether a candidate did triple science or engineering at gcse. Having said that, if he happened to know that gcse engineering was an option and it wasn't taken, I think he'd find that odd. I don't know how he'd ever find that out, mind!

As others have pointed out engineering is not just a subject at university, at the moment various big companies are screaming for young people to to go down the apprentice route.

In many companies this is not only at 21 but at 16 and 18 as well.

I don't know how he'd ever find that out, mind!

As he is recruiting I suspect that schools will probably be in contact with him for school visits (to and from the school) plus work experience weeks.

Even Oxbridge accept Double Science for medical degrees so don’t necessarily be swayed by people saying it is the better option. It isn’t-especially not with the new qualifications.

Do what you and your son would prefer to do. He’s the one going to be studying these subjects and hopefully if he enjoys the subjects he chooses, he is likely to get better grades.

Good luck with choosing!