G'ah GCSE options: triple science vs double + engineering...

[nobutreally]

So: Ds has been very definite on his GCSE options - triple science, with computer science to fill his two 'free choice' options (language and either history of geography compulsory). BUT he also loves the look of engineering and has talked about this as a career path. So, he does in theory have the option to drop down to double science and also take engineering. His science teacher was pretty relaxed about dropping down to double science - and that he could still look at science A level. The engineering teacher said it would be tough to move over to engineering at a level if he hasn't done a DT GCSE. So .... can anyone tell me anymore about double vs triple science (science is his Thing - but mostly physics) or about the engineering GCSE/what is needed for engineering path? I'm a Eng Lit grad so this really is NOT my space!!

Thanks Cuboidal and caroldecker - this is all very useful in helping me help ds (we've stressed it is HIS choice - but he's finding it hard because he wants to do everything - he was musing whether the DT teacher could be convinced to teach an extra Graphics GCSE after school because that looked cool too!). It feels that - for him - the triple plus Computer Science (his first choice) is probably the right one. I still think the engineering GCSE looks like nice mix of academic and practical with a nice focus on problem solving. But for ds, I think the academic side is the right one... and at the mo he seems to be agreeing!

G'ah - more comments whilst I was posting! I think in an ideal world he'd do engineering, CS AND triple science (& probably drop Spanish - much as it might pain me!!) I keep telling him that he really can't go wrong - as long as he does something he enjoys and keeps 'playing' outside school with the stuff he enjoys (dismembering old tech, raspberry pi projects and RI lectures at the mo... hopefully acceptable to your dh, Theressomebody!)

I did Engineering at Uni - the drop out rate was breathtakingly high, it is hard, really hard - long hours in class and labs and lots of studying everyday to keep on top on it. Make sure he knows what he is letting himself in for. And the only possible advantage might be that a GCSE in Engineering gives him a better insight into what he is getting himself involved in....but then again it's only going to be GCSE hard so maybe not.

The GCSE Engineering is relatively new I think. Split into 4 x 25% sections - they have to take apart an object and do some design on computer , research into what they’re making or something like that - sounds quite hands on/ creative DT stuff we were told. My niece is off at uni doing Engineering. She did triple science at GCSE but no Engineering. A levels in Maths, Further Maths and Physics.

The GCSE Engineering is relatively new I think. Split into 4 x 25% sections

You may be thinking of the V cert, NCFE or BTec, but not the new GCSE or legacy GCSE.

Its triple science every time if he is looking at uni for engineering. The sciences are a very important foundation before you progress to engineering.

My kids are of primary age so I'm not up to date with gcse, but why on earth is triple science better for engineering degrees?

Can you not do Physics A level with double science? Or just do Physics and Chemistry GCSE, without Biology?
As long as Maths, Physics, & D&T A levels (with German/Chinese ideally) you'll be grand, surely!

Does your ds have a particular type if engineering he's interested in?? There was a really interesting interview on radio 4 the other day with a Chemical Engineer. She was in charge of the redesign of St Pancreas.

why on earth is triple science better for engineering degrees?

All the engineering is taught at university as if you have never done it before. Your ability to succeed at learning everything there depends on your knowledge of the sciences.

Most comprehensives dont allow for the option to drop biology and just do physics and chemistry. And whilst its possible to do Physics at A-Level having only done double science it is most definitely a handicap or a hurdle that has to be overcome.

I work with engineers and they all say physics and maths are vital - if you want hands on experience, buy him a car wreck like this and let him rebuild it over the next few years. A first car and excellent engineering discussion to have with anyone in the future. Take some phots alongside for a project folder.

Its triple science every time if he is looking at uni for engineering.

Not true. I’m a Sixth Form form tutor and there is no uni that specifies the need for triple science. They can’t as not all schools teach it. Even for medical degrees.
We’ve never had a student rejected because of it.
My husband is a Science teacher too (we’ve had many a conversation about it as lots of students and parents don’t take up my subject as they believe they have to do it).
The new Double Science is so very close to the triple Science qualification that it is no longer the case (which is encouraging and allows students more choice)

I think you are right in that he can’t really go too wrong if he’s set on engineering.

I’d be a bit wary of him ending up in an A level science class where he’s one of only a couple of student who have done double. But if he’s willing to put in the extra work and cover the additional content outside school that shouldn’t be an issue.

Also swapping the engineering for another science or further maths might leave more options open to him without disadvantaging him in terms of taking up engineering.

Thank you all so much for your thoughts and inputs - this has been so helpful! Caroldecker - we actually have an old convertible that he could help us with (but it's kept at dh's work as we don't have a drive/wouldn't be easy to keep it parked round here). Great tip though! I struggle as in all honesty I don't think I really understand engineering - it's so broad I can't get a grasp on it.

Theresomebody: the way the GCSE options work now you don't choose individual subjects - you get a double or triple qualification, but each qualification covers all three sciences: it's just about how much detail/breadth you go into on each subject as I understand it (more knowledgeable people may correct me here). It's a bit illogical to those of us taught the old way, but I guess means a broader science base for all...

I work for a business that employs 300,000 engineers worldwide. They require engineering degrees (chemical, mechanical and electrical) and MATHS A Level as a minimum.

I think you should take a look at the Council
Of Engineering Institutions to give you greater knowledge of what engineering careers actually look like. You are only looking at mechanical at the moment - taking things apart and putting them back together. There are many other skills and interests he may have that are useful for engineering. A concept of 3D and how Engineering enhances the built environment for a start. Does he wonder about how large buildings are built or how electricity is supplied to us all?

DH is a Civil and Structural Engineer. He did A level engineering plus maths and physics. He is also is his 60s! He does, however, recruit engineers to his company. There are a few things to consider:

GCSE Engineering is not really necessary for degree engineers. The current A level in Engineering may not be that good but don’t rule it out. If he could do Maths, Physics, FM and Engineering A level, then he would be very well placed to do engineering. Only do Chemistry if he wants chemical engineering. Do the GCSEs that would lead to the best A level results. DT and Geography are also good 4th or 3rd A level
Options.

There are two levels of degree qualification. Chartered and Incorporated. Chartered can take forever with a BEng. An undergrad masters (MEng) or a masters after BEng is a quicker route to Chartered. Getting Chartered is fairly onerous now but is the gold standard. The apprentice Route suits some, but it is the slow route. It does have the advantage of earning money though.

If he is interested in “Engineering”, try and find out which branch he might be interested in by doing a bit of research via the CEI. Then he can begin to tailor his interests. DH tells me he was able to do an architectural course whilst at school. He went to an amazing school that really understood their boys. Any relevant work experience from 16 onwards is helpful. Many employers have work experience opportunities for local children. Developing an interest in your area of engineering is key so work out what that might be and go from there. All engineers should be practical and be good at solving problems. Just being academic isn’t enough. However employment prospects are good for everyone in engineering.

Thanks for that Bubbles - will have a look.

DD is doing an engineering degree. She did maths, physics and chemistry at A level. Her offer was 1A* in either maths or physics and As in the other 2 subjects. She also did AS in further maths (and biology) and picked mechanics modules. She says the ones that didn't do any further maths found the first year of the degree harder. She is also practical though as she has a lot of work experience and her father has an engineering background (through an apprenticeship route).
I would stick to his choices I think unless the school can be pursuaded to let him drop the language GCSE and do engineering instead - depending on timetabling. Also as he gets older, look at the Headstart website and see if there are any suitable summer courses and try and get some work experience over the summer holidays etc.
What you don't want to do is limit options at this stage and your DS may change his mind - my DD was originally going to do medicine.