City of London Girls withdrawing offers

[Leo12345]

Hello! I was surprised to receive an email today from City of London Girls that their offer to DD is now withdrawn. I opened their original email with the offer and read that indeed this is their policy: first-comes-first-gets.
We are much more prone to go to LEH or if not Kingston Grammar, and now I bless this decision as I learnt something about City of London Girls character and aptitude towards its pupil.

My question is: do other schools (in particular LEH and Kingston Grammar) practice such policy?

We would accept the offer in LEH today then, though we are waiting for the tour in there.

Thankfully, the leaders of ISA, IAPS and a couple of headmasters have all tweeted that this is likely to be in contravention of the ISC agreement. I very much doubt that CLSG will employ exploding offers next year.

@Firefox1066 - am struggling to find these tweets. What are the @ names to search for?

I'm not good on twitter but I found some - @goodschoolsuk and @therealsusieh. That might point you in the right direction.

Those defending this as the only way city could manage their popularity must agree that they will have to re-think for next year. If the staff member referred to is to be believed, they were shocked by what happened. In that case they completely underestimated the potential for panic amongst parents. What happened this year is to me the logical outcome one year on from what happened last year. What did they expect? Next year can only be camping out and fist fights as others have said. The school will have to find another way to deal with their supposedly unique difficulties.

I have no doubt that city is an excellent school but it is far from unique in that respect. I speak as a parent with children in four different top independent secondary schools in London, all of which are excellent in different ways.

@dragthing if you look for Goodschools guide UK, you'll see a tweet from them about "rogue schools". You will also see the subsequent replies from the CEO of ISA and the Head of IAPS. There's a couple of other tweets from Headteachers also

Good - I hope it means they put a stop to this. I'm not involved at all, but think its wrong on so many levels. Offers should be honoured, waiting lists utilised. Withdrawing offers is a cruel thing to do.

They over offer like all other schools

No, they obviously don't. Other schools manage to tailor their offers to realistic levels and therefore don't have exploding offers.

As a current CLSG parent I think the withdrawal of offers is unfair and the school is aware of the negative publicity it has attracted. The same thing happened last year and very little seems to have changed this year.

Although the school is located in very ugly buildings I can’t honestly fault the education as it is outstanding.

Dragthing - I would be sharing your frustration at this but I am guessing that the admissions department cannot answer your question on the basis that there are other parents on this forum (not only this thread) who have taken a place but are apparently not definitely intending to send their child to the school. And seemingly others are also encouraging those parents not to let the school know if they are arriving or not. Sadly, I would guess that the position will be clearer for admissions this year after the state school offers are made. After last year, the school made less offers but I'm guessing that the 9 hour explosion will have been fuelled (in part) by some parents rushing to encourage others to take a place 'just in case'. Whatever system is used to allocate (and I note from alternative threads that the same issue of first come, first served will apply to some Grammar/State after the march 1st allocations) there will be those who try and circumnavigate leading to consequences that the school does not intend. The deposit paid as a pp stated is supposed to cement your intention to take the place at the school. Not everyone has a spare £1500 to effectively block another child taking a place. In your specific instance I would encourage you to remain in contact with admissions even if you are not getting a response and ensure they understand you would take a place if offered.

first served will apply to some Grammar/State after the march 1st allocations
I haven't read the whole thread, but state schools (& that includes grammars!) are not allowed to do that.

First come, first served is reasonable if the parents are sitting on all the confirmed offers the child might get. That is why this situation is not comparable to state grammars.

I just hope the outcry is strong enough that other schools don't try to attempt this next year.

Woodlanddreamer - you are of course correct about state Grammars. I stand corrected. It was another school I am not familiar with containing 'grammar' in the title. Same practice, different date.

Dragthing I have had two reponses to the 15 emails (no reponses to phone calls) I’ve sent during the entire admissions process.

Sadly, your situation is not unique. Every other school has returned every phone call or email I’ve sent.

I don’t get it, are they understaffed? Do they simply not care? Or they don’t need to bother as there are enough families that will need a school place so they can treat families however they like?

I hope the DDs affected by this are alright. Not much of the discussion seems to have been about them and how disappointed some must be. Or the guilt some mothers might be feeling that they did not do the in depth research of admissions patterns of previous years, that some are indicating they should have done.

My DD is now first year University, but always did a lot of extra-curricular where she met girls from schools all over London, and then went to a sixth form that attracts a lot of City girls. (Eleven in her year I think.) She has since met others at University. She ruled out City early on "too much concrete" and knew she wanted co-ed. She has known girls who were happy at schools and those who were not. She has known girls who performed well at less highly-regarded schools and those who under-performed at top schools. She has met girls who moved schools because they were not happy and who thrived elsewhere.

Yes, some girls she knew loved City. Others did not. That is true for all schools. Most of the alternatives offered will also be very good schools and it is very likely that in two or three years time posters will be able to return to say their DDs are happy and thriving and that not getting a place at City was a blessing in disguise.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the City approach, it looks very poor when viewed from the perspective of a 10 year old. For that reason alone, I would be pleased my DD was not going there.

I agree needmore. It mostly will be alright In time but it is bruising.
I’m so surprised this involves City as when I dealt with them 2 years ago they were imo the easiest admissions to approach. I think Rachel was in charge. Always responsive and I thought, kind.

londonista1 wow, really, you can tell how all those who are defending the school would have voted in the referendum? Care to expand?
I think it is a tough situation to be in and for clarity I am the parent of a girl who left CLSG last year.
I wonder though the number of parents who are upset were trying to hold multiple offers? I really think there should be a system in the consortium of ranking like there is for state school applications.
When we applied, we applied to City only because we knew that is where my daughter wanted to go - we were lucky that this system wasn't in place and were able to bring the acceptance paperwork and cheque to the holding offers day and hand them in then.
And I have nothing but excellent things to say about the school and can imagine that it is horrified by what has happened.
My daughter went through an extremely traumatic experience in year 12 (unrelated to school) and CLSG were fucking brilliant to be honest.
Whilst I appreciate how upsetting this situation is for those who 'lost' out on something they may not have really considered anyway, it is poor form to intimate that the school is somehow lacking compared to the other indies in London.

Almost that was exactly our experience. Even though DD didn't get in, we left with a positive impression of the school and the feeling it was better organised than others. In our area, another top ranked indy who interviews after the test let's people know in a scattered way. We were all saying if City can manage to notify over 800 people the same day whether their DD is going forward or not, why can't this school? It just seemed like a stunt to ratchet up the anxiety.

Such a contrast to this year when they seemed to have joined the fray.

it is poor form to intimate that the school is somehow lacking compared to the other indies in London.

Well, with regard to its admissions practices this year, it frankly is! No one has bashed the quality of the academics or anything else directly related to the school. (Brexit comment was ridiculous.)

Anyway, next year will hopefully be the last round of entrance exams for us with DD2. I really, really hope we can get out before more schools think up additional 'fuck you parents and kids' routes to entry.

The Brexit comment was a joke in response to the post above saying how divisive it was. Maybe I should start using emojis.

I don't think anyone can doubt that CLSG is an excellent school. I would say that this policy is so at odds with its perceived persona that it is perplexing that they would even employ such a policy in the first place.

Be that as it may, once the dust has settled, I am pretty certain that they will abandon it and move to something that better promotes the honesty, honour and integrity that the school is typically known for.

I don’t think many, if any, are questioning that City is academically a very good school. It is indeed, on this metric, an excellent school and hence why is in such high demand despite its other perceived limitations (limited outside space, suboptimal natural light, etc.)
What I find contradicting from the posters defending the admission process is that on one side they acknowledge this high demand but then say it’s not top choice for many of the applicants and/or it’s different from other schools. I thoroughly disagree with this and ultimately it’s this myth that has resulted in the chaos experienced this year and last year, leaving those “not in the known/without heads up” at a loss.
City is clearly a top choice for many and the school knows it.

there are other parents on this forum (not only this thread) who have taken a place but are apparently not definitely intending to send their child to the school. And seemingly others are also encouraging those parents not to let the school know if they are arriving or not.

If those parents are waiting for the state allocations day or are on the waiting lists for other independents, then I join those encouraging them not to let the school know. CLSG set the rules of this game. You can't fault parents for playing by them.

After last year, the school made less offers but I'm guessing that the 9 hour explosion will have been fuelled (in part) by some parents rushing to encourage others to take a place 'just in case'.

I'd be surprised if this weren't the case. The logical equilibrium for this game that CLSG have set is, indeed, that any accepted applicant with the wherewithal and any potential desire for the school must queue up at the first possible moment - just like for tickets to a sold-out concert. The only reason that didn't happen this year is that relatively few people thought it through to the conclusion.

The fact that CLSG are surprised at this outcome indicates that either a) they didn't think it through themselves, or b) they did understand the consequences and, having already screened the girls, they decided to screen explicitly for parents who worked through the game ahead of time. And/or for whom it was the first option. And/or for whom it was the only option. And/or for whom £1500 was immaterial.

Every allocation mechanism has drawbacks for somebody. At the NLCS open day last spring, a question was asked about exploding offers. The head of admission replied, "If too many girls accept our offers, that's my problem, not yours." CLSG have chosen to make it your problem.

If I were to be mean-spirited I might even suggest that any parents, who have put down the £1500 but then receive a more preferred place, take their time and inform CLSG on 17 April rather than on 02 or 07 March. After all, you've paid for the privilege of making it their problem. But, unfortunately, that would also have highly detrimental effects on girls on the CLSG waiting list who really want the place, so let's not go there.

Dancegirl - there is a website called google which can furnish you with information

soya would you have the decency to answer my question? I am truly interested what makes this school unique in your opinion as a current parent? Can you not share that?

CLSG have chosen to make it your problem

But they will also have an admin/logistics problem when some of those girls who have accepted their place then inform the school that they are not taking them up. Yes they have made a bit of cash from it, but they are then going to have to go down the waiting list which is precisely what they wanted to avoid in the first place!

Eastlondonmum, your name may explain.

You suggest "then say it’s not top choice for many of the applicants". It really was not for many. Yes it was first choice for Islington girls, but though it was the easiest journey for us (direct and frequent bus) we were put off by the fact that most girls in our area headed for JAGS, so DD would have been an outlier. Ditto bright Chelsea girls aim for SPGS and North London girls want NCLS. All schools are a bit of a lottery even for very bright girls, so City was often an attractive fall-back. Great school, not so great journey.

Things have changed and there will be more "first choice" demand from East London. City will know their traditional acceptance rates. They can speak to other registrars to get a better take on overall demand for London school, and then they can drill down by post-code and education background. Perhaps acceptance rates hovers around 70% for Islington girls and around 30% for Chelsea girls. Or late declines happen more from girls from state primaries living in grammar school areas. Or the impact of SPGS setting geographical limits on who they will consider. Then they notice a load of applications from Canary Wharf and other "new" residential areas who don't have a lot of alternatives, or as a result of improved transport links (watch out for Cross Rail). They work it out. They might get it a bit wrong one year, but this year should not have happened.

From observation I suspect that it is slightly easier to get into very sought after academic schools if you live nearby. I suspect it is part of the decision making with schools having decided that kids do better if they can play a full part in school life and do not arrive exhausted after battling the commuter throng. As well as doing a bit of statistical modelling on acceptance rates, I think City should put more thought into embracing the fact that they now have a larger catchment for whom they are top choice.

I don't know if this is true or not but someone was telling me that they knew someone who got their money back for one of the two schools mentioned here. They bagsied their place with a deposit but had to wait a week for another school to make their offers (and eventually decided they'd prefer the latter school). They then combed the contract and apparently gathered that if they withdrew their acceptance before the March deadline then they were entitled to a refund.

As I say, I can't vouch for the veracity of this story...

Dancegirl - newsflash, I don't work for you so I don't know where you get off repeating your demands of me.

Read this thread, read my posts, read the internet - all the information your require is there. If you still can't work it out, I am not smart enough to help you.

Expat - agree with your And/or for whom it was the first option. And/or for whom it was the only option. And/or for whom £1500 was immaterial.

This process definitely works for the majority of families given offers and helps the school take more girls who are super keen to join rather than are still deciding CLSG against other great schools and options.