GCSE extra time allowed

[jenkel]

A bit of a rant here, feel that we have let our dd down a little and it may be too late to do anything about it. Well here goes.

DD is a late august bday and had always struggled at school, she doesn't find school easy, lacks confidence and is very quiet. Her reading age has always been below her actual age, Her predicted gcse grades are passes, just about, mocks backed this up.

Anyway had just come to our attention that you can request actual time in the exams, well if there ever was s candidate for this I would think it would be our dd. Even though she has never been diagnosed with any form of learning dissability or is under Senco.

I'm not sure I strictly agree with it though, feel that it should be a level playing field for all children regardless of any issues (but that's without thinking it through to much, don't want to get into a argument over that). Actually I think if we had pushed we could probably get her diagnosed with something.

Anyway it has come to light that loads of kids do this at her school, even ones that are grade 1 students with also no diagnosis. Her best friend who is a straight grade 1 student has been awarded this extra time and she is a sept birthday, so almost a clear year older than our dd and a very intelligent child.

We are trying to get my dd awarded this extra time but it looks like now it is too late. We didn't even know this was an option.

So we feel a bit let down by the school and a bit cheated by the education system/exam system. How can straight grade 1 students get this and grade 4/5 students with a low reading age not get it. Is it a case of who shouts the loudest?

Any thoughts please, thanks.

Your daughter will not get extra time, but you have a small period of time now up to the exams to help her with exam technique and mental approach to exams. This could make a significant difference, teach her resilence and confidence. It is too late to get hung up on her August birthday. But please, do not spend your time, effort and thoughts on other children who are getting extra time and resent them for it. Hidden SEN , which can often be found in high ability children, can result in extra time being given for exams. When my DS gets this, it can be counterproductive, he's not in the same room as his friends, and feels embarrassed by it. But he realises why he has the extra time, and does his best to use it well.

It does sound as if your dd should have been assessed but that doesn't mean that other children shouldn't also get extra time. We are waiting to hear for SATs and hopefully will get extra time. I would still prefer that she didn't need extra time and she didn't have two conditions that qualify her for extra time and mean that every day she wakes up in pain and frequently dislocates joints I didn't even know it was possible to dislocate.

www.dyslexia.com/about-dyslexia/signs-of-dyslexia/test-for-dyslexia-37-signs/

She does sound like a classic dyslexic child jenkel. Do investigate now!
To other poster. Yes yenkel sounds resentful but the system is not fair. Tests for processing and reading speed that qualify for extra time are not compulsory so only children in good schools with good sencos and teachers get tested. Teachers are overworked and underpaid which affects schools in less leafy areas more as they find it hard to recruit quality staff. OP should have been told to get her child tested a long time ago. No wonder she is resentful.

The problem is that so many teachers aren't taught how to spot students with difficulties and label them 'lazy'

They aren't taught first aid as part of their training either as it's separate!

Get pushing! Speak to the SENCO

notnearlythereyet
What I was meaning is that it's one thing to think 'why wasn't my child picked up for assessment' and another to act like it's unfair other children have access arrangements because they happen to be quite able.

My DD has no SEN. However she has hypermobility which severely affects her speed & causes s lot of pain/fatigue. She looks normal to most people. She is awarded extra time because this is a serious problem. I think you can't assume that a person with no Sen is not deserving of extra time.

I think its interesting because my DD has hypermobility too - mainly in her hands and has struggled with pencil grip since starting school..... I didnt realise she had hypermobility until year 10 when she started to get other issues (pains in legs and acid reflux).
She manages the hypermobility well - main issue tends to be History where she has to get facts down quickly (also her weakest subject) However, she has been offered rest breaks which she takes and also the option to type (she felt it was too late to be competent at typing so has continued to write). In classes the Hypermobility is very evident she is allowed to miss certain questions (every other one etc) BUT the school (Indie) did not feel that we should push for extra time ....which I feel is probably the right decision - Its only one subject that she struggles with ...she's never said (other than History) that she has not finished a paper....
We had an occasion where she had three mock exams in one day and that did have some impact ...but she still managed OK.

We may have to look at a further assessment for A levels if there is allot of writing but we will see how she goes ...

Yes you are too late, but as above it doesn't sound as if you have a reason to apply anyway. If you did, it would have been flagged up to you by at last one of her teachers anyway as it's in the schools interest that your DD gets the best mark possible achievable & even then, there is no guarantee she would qualify anyway as the assessment process is pretty ridged & needs medical letters on top of assessment.

Kids just don't get extra for the types of thing you mention with your DD, that's not what it's there for, it's there for kids who have one hand tied behind there backs because they do have a physical or processing disability that holds them back from reaching their full potential in exams. So it is about levelling the playing field for those who have a genuine reason to need it & youngest in class etc is not a disability.

I suspect the DC you know who qualified, has more going on than you know about & rightly so that you don't need to be in the know on any additional needs they have been diagnosed with, NOYB

Even when there is a very obvious diagnosed cause as to why they need extra time, you might still have to fight for assessment if they do well in school without extra time. We were refused assessment for DD as the assessor initially refused to believe DD needed as she was already doing so well, even though 3 different teachers suggested we apply for it. It took a lot of my wrangling to make that assessment happen, plus letters from consultants& OT to support the assessor applying on DDs behalf & when it did, the assessor owned up to being shocked at just how badly DDs processing & pain problems affected her in exams, or even just class work, so she did get a significant amount of extra time, so that she can now reach her full potential, which allows her to achieve what she's capable of, without being held back by her disabilities.

If you did, it would have been flagged up to you by at last one of her teachers anyway as it's in the schools interest that your DD gets the best mark possible achievable

This assumes the teachers have the necessary skills to flag up issues. An awful lot don't and so many children slip through the cracks. It isn't right, and teachers should be required to receive specific training on how to identify potential SEN and renew it regularly.

Her class work is always good and she gets much better results than what she ever does in exams.

Just spotted this comment jenkel. If this is as bad as you say, then her teachers should have picked up on this & suggested assessment to you already, which is why it happened for our DD. As that didn't happen, then I agree the school may have let her down. Though without a medical letter to support your claim for extra times, I'm not sure how easy this will be to achieve

Totally agree with JeminaHolm.

The problem is that has parents you think that something is not quite right but it isnt a major issue ...

My daughter should have been identified with Hypermobility fairly early - pencil grip was mentioned in reports from aged 4...not writing enough was identified fairly consistently through primary years...BUT she is bright and found ways of coping - so actually there is equal chance of a bright child not getting the diagnosis.

Perhaps a simple tick list in reception could help - certainly it would with hypermobility children who have classic signs of poor pencil grip. The children have eye tests etc so just extend these tests.

This assumes the teachers have the necessary skills to flag up issues

I agree - they don't have the skills and they have very little training on these issues. It's actually shocking that DS teacher named clearly 10 dyslexic traits in his report -

Lazy, easily distracted, doesn't concentrate, fidgets ..... All major traits along with no homwork, refuses to read aloud, doesn't join in the discussion, very little or poor writing, poor memory skills

It's something I'm quite angry about

If this is as bad as you say, then her teachers should have picked up on this & suggested assessment to you already, which is why it happened for our DD. As that didn't happen, then I agree the school may have let her down.
Not automatically.I really dislike the growing thing of 'needs extra time because class work is better than exams'. It's come up more in recent years. Much easier to day 'ask for extra time at gcse' than to work on exan technique.

Right now 'classwork better than exams' sums up 50% of my Year 11s and that's also true across our department. That's not because 50% of the cohort have SEND needs. It's because they need to work on their exam technique.

I put students forward for assessment and we have regular SEND training and our school is great for SEND provision (and have people wanting to join from out of catchment for it), but I do think we have to be careful of 'gets ti GCSE, finds exams hard, now there might be a SEND need'

Extra time isn't just for SEN - it's also for disabilities, some of which you won't be able to see. Friend of DD had extra time for a physical illness which you would never of known about if you didn't know the girl well.

It’s very difficult to get extra time, as it should be. I agree with the previous poster too, who said that most don’t use it effectively if given it. My experience has been that it takes a monumental effort to keep them in the exam room for the normal time, let alone extra time.

OP, if your daughter has always had difficulties with reading, how has that been managed until now? There must have been opportunities to talk about this over time and I would have expected the school, in consultation with you, to put some support in place before now, if they felt it was warranted.

Some children are very able, but can’t process information sufficiently well, or write well enough to demonstrate their knowledge and they are the ones for whom extra time can be beneficial. Not everyone is of equal ability. Maybe your daughter’s talents lie elsewhere, rather than in reading and writing.

To be fair, I don’t think there is massive abuse of the system. Having worked within for many years and had some cases I felt were really deserving of extra time, turned down, I can say that it really isn’t easy to get it.

I was the youngest in my year, very quiet and shy, always in the top 3-4 academically until A levels when I ended up with Bs and Cs after being predicted A's. I had lots of physical problems, terrible at sport, forgetful, always getting lost. In adulthood I got a diagnosis of dyspraxia. Dd is also dyspraxic and hypermobile, she couldn't keep up in class as she couldn't write fast enough. Once she got the extra time her grades jumped from getting around 65-70% at school as she never finished her papers to getting 90% plus. I'm saying this because she has slow processing and working memory - cognitive scores on 98th centile, processing on 28th centile. To look at her you would not know she had any problems. She was always in the top sets at school even before her diagnosis but the 25% extra time made her go from being in the top 15% in her year to the top 2-3%. If your dd has gaps in her knowledge extra time won't help and I can guarantee that no-one can 'fake' slow processing. dd's class teachers pointed out there could be an issue, I noticed it took dd hours to do homework that was supposed to take 20 mins and then the Ed Psych confirmed it. dd always tries really hard and the Ed Psych mentioned in her report that dd tried her very hardest to write fast and to do a good job, she just wasn't able. You sound jealous. Be grateful your dd doesn't have any real SEND, extra time doesn't begin to compensate for all the difficulties these dc face.

You are on a very rocky path here because the deadline is fast approaching but what you need is evidence from her mocks that she didn't finish tests and teachers to say she could have finished tests if she had had more time plus whomever assesses for the school to do the following tests:

Speed of processing, either RAN/RAS or CTOPP + TOWRE and DASH Handwriting speed test. A reading comprehension test would also be good such as the Access reading or Edinburgh reading test plus a single word reading test. I suggest working memory as well such as digits forwards and backwards from CTOPP or TOMAL 2 ( though not many schools seem to do that one). Every assessor has their favourite tests and there are many more than these.

However, extra time is only any good if it is used. Some students are frankly not able to use it due to either the fact they haven't worked or thst they are just not cognitively able enough. Sometimes processing speed matches the level of academic cognition and usually the most telling thing is weak working memory. I've taught loads of really bright kids who have a weak working memory and even with extra time, they just don't do that well in exams. Very sad and education, thanks to odious Gove, has enhanced this level of potential failure.

In all honesty, I think you are going to get short shrift because it is so late in the day. Schools are inspected by JCQ each year and the access arrangement inspectors are very, very picky and if they find anything they are not happy with then they can pull all the exam access arrangements for every kid in that school. No senco is going to risk that so I think if the teachers say there is no evidence then you will really struggle. This happens every year after mocks, suddenly mothers contact the school saying that their child needs access arrangements but it needs to be proved that it is a 'normal way of working' and JCQ are pretty draconian.

This happens every year after mocks, suddenly mothers contact the school saying that their child needs access arrangements but it needs to be proved that it is a 'normal way of working' and JCQ are pretty draconian.
We find that too.
Often staff have raised issues in class over the years as well and had limited support and then by y11 there's sudden requests for extra time because they find they struggle in exam conditions. Or the last minute 'my child has normal nerves' becomes we think DC has anxiety. We want a separate setting because the hall is overwhelming Their friend has anxiety and gets a separate setting. Can DC have that?

For the child I suggested for assessment (and it was awarded) I've been pushing for it since Y10 with mum's support and submitting regualr records of normal way of working.

It’s very difficult to get extra time, as it should be. I agree with the previous poster too, who said that most don’t use it effectively if given it. My experience has been that it takes a monumental effort to keep them in the exam room for the normal time, let alone extra time.

That's very interesting foxy, ours is doing exactly that. Her school have been great, she has extra time, but refuses to use it most of the time. Yet stresses how she's going to cope with GCSEs, she just doesn't get the idea of pacing herself at all & as a result is making herself more ill & missing more school. She's rebelling with all the stuff in place to help her 😩

Interesting about the working term memory comment. An ed psych said dd had the worst working term memory he’d ever seen.

She just got 7,8,5, A,A,,A,A,B,B,C in her GCSEs. She did get extra time and I think probably needed it.

Unfortunately the numbers getting extra time have grown so much recently that you can understand every parent thinking if you can't beat 'em join 'em. Of course there are many genuine cases, but only yesterday I was googling something unrelated, and came across all these discussions/advice online about how to get extra time - including from a forum for independent school parents. Never mind tutors for improving in a school subject, you could pay to learn how to fail tests which would pave the way for extra time!

I think that a system designed to level the playing field has been hijacked by those with the nouse to game the system, and is unfair to the "average" kid and those who aren't in clued-up schools or who have canny parents.

From personal experience, one of ds's friends wears glasses. He got extra time because of extremely poor vision, and told ds that all he had to do was pretend not to be able to see very well in the test. Then he wanted to learn to drive. Panic! He would have to declare his vision problems. He re-took the test and was declared fine. Ds says this boy has a horrible mother...

Just to update you all and a bit of background, I did not request the extra time, her maths teacher did. I didn't even know it was an option. Anyway, they rushed her through the assessment yesterday and she has been awarded the extra time and the use of Read and Write Gold, no idea what that is so will do further research.

Not sure how I feel about it, but as so many of you had said it's hard if not impossible to fake the test , despite what I initially thought. I can at least take some satisfaction that we are giving her a bit more of chance at a level playing field.

And perhaps she does have some undiagnosed issue of some description.

Brilliant! Deadline is the 23rd! Read write gold is a computer reading system and dictation too instead of a scribe.